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In this week’s Marriage Matters, Andy B and Jo talk candidly about things that cause problems in our marriages, that may lead to unfaithfulness in one shape or another and things that lead to an affair. They ask whether we should affair proof our marriages, whether this possible and whether this beneficial.

As always, Andy B steers the episode with scripture and explores the following:

  • Matthew 5:27-28
  • 1 Corinthians 6:18
  • 1 Corinthians 10:13
  • Proverbs 6:24-29

Tips and Resources

The Take Away

Andy B - Affairs don’t just happen, there are many steps to infidelity. Don’t seek to affair proof your marriage, spending time on what could go wrong, instead focus on the good – what is working in your marriage and how much you love your spouse.

Jo - Be aware of the dangers – actions that can lead to an affair – the bible helps us stay on the right track!

Andy and Jo



Andy 0:38 Well, hello, and welcome to another fantastic awesome episode, if I say so myself humbly and awesomely of Marriage Matters.

Jo 0:47 Hello, I'm Jo.

Andy 0:48 And I'm Andy. And this is Marriage Matters where we discuss things of the marriage. And today we're looking at

Jo 0:54 It's A Family Affair is our title.

Andy 0:56 Which is what?

Jo 0:58 Well, we're looking at, you know, preventing, I suppose, affairs. But thinking about how we manage ourselves amongst other people, and maybe not getting too close to things. I know, I remember that analogy you told me about this lady wanted to hire a chauffeur. And the question she asked, wasn't, was how near will you get to the edge of the road? 'cos the road was quite, like a steep slope at the end?

Andy 1:22 How can you get, how close can you get to the edge of the road, and still be safe?

Jo 1:26 That's it. And she chose the chauffeur who said they'd stay the furthest away from the edge. And so I suppose, in a way, it's thinking about that in terms of marriage, you know. How close are we going to get to in other relationships, with other people, that might cause problems? And how far do we need to go to make sure we're safe? I suppose

Andy 1:45 Indeed. But if you'd like to keep up to date with everything else that we're doing, and you can like us on Facebook, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel. We're also now on Twitter, and Tumblr. 'Cos, you know, we like to spread out a little bit. And the best thing you can do is sign up to, are you ready for this? Berry Bytes, with a why? 'Cos why not? Berry Bytes, bytes, electrical, digital stuff, computer. Anyway, it's a newsletter that's really awesome. And it'll tell you what you might have missed.

Andy 1:45 Yeah. And to keep in touch with marriage Matters.

Andy 1:58 Yes.

Jo 2:00 So we've had quite a few episodes now. And they seem to sort of link in from the previous one, don't they. Sort of, the, we get our inspiration from the one before.

Andy 2:24 Well, they do because of course, Marriage Matters, matters because matters of the marriage matter, because Marriage Matters.

Jo 2:30 Oh, I thought we'd missed that bit.

Andy 2:31 Aren't you pleased we didn't!

Jo 2:34 I'm gonna try and keep us to time, you know, so if I and the off it's because I'm trying to keep to time. But, yeah, It's A Family Affair is a play on words 'cos there's a song, isn't there, It's A Family Affair.

Andy 2:44 I'm not gonna sing it!

Jo 2:45 But thinking about the possibility of affairs or, or getting a bit close to it and thinking about how we manage ourselves.

Andy 2:53 What classes as an affair?

Jo 2:54 Hmm, yeah.

Andy 2:55 What is an affair?

Jo 2:56 Yes.

Andy 2:57 Is it actual stuff? Doings? Or is it other stuff?

Jo 3:00 Yeah. So what Scripture we've got Andy?

Andy 3:03 Okay, we've got some good scriptures. They're not gentle! And they're not even from James. Gentle James doesn't appear today.

Jo 3:10 No.

Andy 3:11 But should we start at the beginning of our little list?

Jo 3:13 Yeah. So Matthew 5, 27 to 28.

Andy 3:17 Hold on to your seats. This is just the introduction. 27 to 28, I've lost it already. That's a great start.

Andy 3:24 "You have heard that it was said do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

Jo 3:42 Woah!

Andy 3:43 We thought we'd go with a nice, gentle, you know, easily misconstrued ones.

Jo 3:49 Shall we just move on to the next one shall we?

Andy 3:50 Yeah, we'll circle back, We'll put a pin in it, hey.

Jo 3:54 1 Corinthians 6, 18.

Andy 3:57 "Flee from sexual immorality, all other sin is a", sorry, "all other sins a man commits are outside his body. But he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, him who you received from God? You are not your own? You were bought at a price. Therefore honour, you, God with your body."

Jo 4:20 Wow. Again, very straight. Direct that one! 1 Corinthians we're staying in. But chapter 10 now verse 13.

Andy 4:28 Yes,

Andy 4:30 "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man, and God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

Jo 4:44 Wow, that's comforting.

Andy 4:45 And one more just because we thought we'd be generous.

Jo 4:48 Proverbs 6,24 to 29.

Andy 4:51 Okay, are you sitting down for this? So verse 23, I'm gonna go back a little tiny bit.

Andy 4:56 "For the, for these commands are a lamp, this teaching is a light and the corrections of discipline are the way to life, keeping you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of the wayward wife. Do not lust in your heart after her beauty, or let her captivate you with her eyes. For the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread and the adulterous preys upon your very life. Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned. Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched? So is he who sleeps with another man's wife? No one who touches her will go unpunished."

Jo 5:34 Wow. I think we should take a break there.

Andy 5:38 I concur.

Jo 5:39 So, let's pray and he's going to come on and show us how to pray. Excellent. What, what have you got there?

Andy 5:46 It's my world Atlas.

Jo 5:47 Okay.

Andy 5:48 So I can pray for the world.

Jo 5:49 Okay.

Andy 5:50 You see, prayer is good.

Jo 5:50 Right. Okay. You gonna show us how to do that then?

Andy 5:53 Yeah. Yeah, So I've gone, I've got my Atlas, and if you go to the letter A, I'm gonna start here so

Jo 5:59 yeah,

Andy 5:59 and please God, please bless Abenrar, and Arcshun and Arbor.

Jo 6:06 What did you like about the story?

Dave the Dog 6:09 Bob,

Jo 6:09 You like Bob?

Dave the Dog 6:10 And the stick?

Jo 6:11 And the stick?

Dave the Dog 6:11 Me likes sticks.

Jo 6:12 You like the stick?

Dave the Dog 6:13 Me likes sticks a lot I do

Jo 6:14 Well, okay, we'll well try and make sure there's some more stories with sticks in Dave.

Dave the Dog 6:16 Thank you.

Jo 6:18 Especially for you.

Jo 6:34 So I found some scriptures for this episode around It's A Family Affair, thinking about how we need to stay faithful, and where, where we need to be careful and alert. And the scriptures we'd read out are quite direct, and quite strong. In Matthew five, it says if you look at a woman you've committed adultery. In Corinthians, we see that actual sexual sin is against your own body, unlike other sins, which is really interesting.

Andy 7:02 So it is slightly different.

Jo 7:03 It is isn't it.

Andy 7:04 It's not greater or lesser. But it's

Jo 7:05 There's a difference. Yeah, has a different a profound effect. And, and there's a way of escape. There's a way out of temptation, which is, I mean, that happens. That's helpful for all kinds of things that we get ourselves into, but it includes going into the sin of adultery. And also, then, Proverbs is about this woman who comes along, you know, being all wonderful, but the dangers of following into sexual immorality with this kind of woman. So, you know, we're not holding back anything today, not holding back our punches. But Andy, so help us with this. Where are we going to go with all this?

Andy 7:42 Let's just briefly overview each one as we go. We'll go in the order we looked at. We'll skip through it and then well we'll wibble on a little bit of some things.

Andy 7:51 So, that Matthew 5, 27 to 28. This one really, for me, this touches on the issue of pornography. And I would also lump pornography in to gratuitous sex scenes on TV, Films. I don't think there's any difference. How do you define pornography? Well, it's a depiction of a man and a woman having sex on a TV screen. That's kind of how I would define it in terms of our own, you know, husband, wife, setting. Pornography does not help you in your sexual relationship. We know that pornography rewires your brain chemically. This is quite heavy duty, serious stuff. But we tend to think of the hardcore pornography as 'that's pornography'. But do you know what, I think it's just as bad when you see a film, and there's a sex scene that's going on, and it's just not needed.

Andy 8:41 Pearl Harbour is a classic one. It's a film about Pearl Harbour, okay, it's about the war. And there's this one scene. And you've got the woman and this bloke, and she's, I mean, we've watched the film, but she's, she's kind of grunting and sweating. And you don't need that. And I actually got the film, I actually edited the film, we played it to our older boys without that scene. Do you know what, it didn't add anything or take anything away from the film. I just cut it out. And they enjoyed the film 'cos it's good film. That's just unnecessary. And what I think we're seeing in a lot of films and TV particularly, is we think of pornography, 'Oh, that's, that's terrible. That's really, really bad'. But why is it any less bad to see a naked woman on a TV screen, than it is to see a couple having sex? We've, we've done, we've covered this one before and I'll just briefly go here again. You can catch it in a previous episode.

Andy 9:24 But John Piper does a wonderful article on the Game of Thrones. What is wrong with seeing naked women on a, on a screen and really, really simply put it this way. If you're seeing a car chase, or a violent scene, or someone's getting shot, there's not really a car chase, and there isn't really someone getting shot. If you're seeing a naked woman, you're seeing a naked woman. That's someone's sister, someone's mother, someone's daughter. It isn't fake! It's not, you know, it is real. And this is the issue that we have. And the Bible's really clear that when we do that, and see that, it isn't something that doesn't go into our hearts. And it's as clear as If you are looking at that, then that's a problem.

Andy 10:03 I remember being on a beach one time, and there was a woman getting changed quite a way away. And she just dropped the bottom half of her clothes and put her skirt on. Now, I saw the lot. I wasn't looking. Unfortunately, she just dropped it all and got changed. Didn't care at all. That's not a sin. Okay, let's not get down some legalistic stupidity route. It's not a sin to see something unless you're trying to see it. But something that's been put in front of you, that you can't avoid seeing, well that's not a sin. The issue is then what do you do with that? Where do you go from there? So let's not get legalistic about 'oh, it's a naked woman, therefore, I've sinned'. Okay, let's not go down that road. That's not gonna help anybody?

Jo 10:40 No.

Andy 10:40 But it's that second look, it's that 'what you do?' Now I looked away, and aside from the mouth agape, how can you do that on a public beach with 1,000 people watching you? I looked away, because I don't want to see that, thanks very much. And I busied the kids who were kind of looking in that way. And I'd got a sandcastle and, you know. So it's not an issue, what you see, it's an issue with what you go next. However, if you are deliberately switching on stuff that's got pictures of naked men and women on there, I would say that was an issue. And if it's painting sufficient a picture that you can imagine them actually having sex on the screen, I would say it's just a similar issue.

Andy 11:15 And scripture's really clear, the Bible is so protective of it in a healthy way. It's not just about physical sex with another person that isn't your husband or your wife. It's about imagining it. It's about seeing it, looking for it specifically, not just accidentally seeing it okay, we're not we're not going down there.

Jo 11:31 Yeah. You make me think about, though, that you know it's interesting how you accidentally saw something. And I think, you know, we do havea responsibility, don't we? I mean, I think the world says that you should be able to walk around naked as a woman. But you know, at the end of the day,

Andy 11:45 You have heard that said haven't you once!

Jo 11:46 I have had that. And it's like, well, the principle of it sounds great. But, actually, should we be, you know, sort of not causing someone else to stumble I think is the scripture, isn't it?

Andy 11:56 We can circle back for the modesty thing?

Jo 11:57 Yeah. Yeah, we can do and the children have walked around town and had to avert their eyes. And it's, you know, yeah, there's a difference isn't there between something that you just see, and something that you go looking for. And like you say, is there's a difference between how you respond? But yeah, that I think we have a responsibility as well to not try and sort of show things off. But that's what's happening, isn't it in films, people are showing themselves off. And I assume, trying to arouse people and make people think certain things, 'cos it's not just there, 'ooh isn't that pretty? Isn't that lovely?' You know it's trying to do something to go somewhere where we we shouldn't go I suppose you me?

Andy 12:34 Yeah. J Parker from Hot, Holy and Humorous, which is a great blog, she has this great idea that Hollywood, please Hollywood, can you not just cut to the sex scene. It's about to happen, the door closes and we fade to the next image. We don't need to seen anymore. Actually, the films I've seen where that's not happened, it's not actually adding to the film. It's just glorifying sex, and glorifying women, and two people who shouldn't be having sex together. So, you know, we're not prudes. We're not stupid. And we're not legalistic, either. But yeah.

Jo 13:01 Are you gonna go to the next one are you?

Andy 13:02 Yeah, 'cos we're just gonna skip through these a little bit?

Jo 13:05 The one about against your own body, isn't it? It's interesting.

Andy 13:08 You see, I find this fascinating 'cos there's this big debate in Christian church that all sins the same. And some people say, well, there's a greater sin. And there's, there's different sins and there's sins of omission. And we can get in this really confused state about 'well is this worse, or that worse'. Here's what the Bible teaches ridiculously clearly. It's wonderful. If you are lusting after a woman, including your wife, by the way, then you are getting it wrong. Plain and simple. You are getting some't in between you and God, that's not meant to be there. Lust is not healthy, ever! It leads to things that aren't appropriate. But if you look at a woman lustfully it's as as if you had taken her to bed, taken off her clothes and had sex with her That's how the Bible views it. So what's going on in our heart and our mind, God sees. And it's just a serious to God.

Andy 13:52 But what I find interesting is sex is on a different level of sin. And okay, we're not going down that it's greater or lesser. But it's more complicated. In fact, elsewhere in the Scripture, it talks about it being like a spider's web. You don't just have a sin. Sexual sin incorporates so many things, hence A Family Affair. You can't have a husband and wife, one of them has an affair and that's the end of it. It affects everybody in the family. Their parents, their children, their children's children, their parent's parents and their friends. It's huge. It's monumental. It's not an isolated event. And I think that's what this is really talking about.

Jo 14:27 Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, obviously, it's not just sexual sin. I mean, the Bible's very clear on it. But it's, you know, we don't just suddenly go into that. There's a journey isn't there, you know. And I suppose you start with one thing, and then it moves to another a bit like drugs, isn't it? You get hooked on to a lower level drug, and then this, and that, and the other, and it moves on to something stronger. And maybe, so if you start looking at a woman or if you start looking at certain magazines, then it might lead to pornography, and then it might lead to an affair sort of thing. And it's about the kind of relationships that we have, whether it's in the workplace, whether it's in church, whether it's out and about, you know. Are we making sure that we've got the right boundaries isn't it? Are we putting ourselves in a position where we might end up down that road? I suppose, isn't it.

Andy 15:08 Vice President Mike Pence, when Trump was President, very famously made a point that he wouldn't be with a woman on his own for dinner. And people said, oh, you know, you're in the dark ages, oh what are you doing, you're an idiot, you know, this is stupid. And he said, no, I'm married to my wife. I don't want ever anything to get in between my relationship with myself and my wife. But he wouldn't have, you know, dinners with women, on their own, which lots of people would do. It's quite a helpful way of eating and having a meeting, but he said, I won't do that, because it's quite an intimate thing having food, 'cos no one can hear the conversation and that's not right. I got a lot of respect for him for that.

Jo 15:40 That's really good.

Andy 15:41 1 Corinthians 10, 13. We're rattling through these.

Jo 15:44 Yeah, this temptation thing, isn't it? Yeah.

Andy 15:46 "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man." So don't think you're on your own. "And God is faithful, He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear."

Andy 15:56 Now we can choose to ignore that. But God gives us a get out, which is kind of encouraging. So when we've done something stupid, maybe we've opened a door not to having an affair, but we've started to consider. We've, we've given a personal number to, to a female, to a female work colleague, or to a male work colleague. And all of a sudden, we're opening a door that really we shouldn't open. And I think that's where there's always that 'I shouldn't be doing this. This doesn't feel right.' But here's the thing, if you're not sure if what you're doing is right, as a husband, I can go to Jo and say, should I have given this woman this number? And we get things naive? Do you want to tell a story about that time that student needed some help?

Jo 16:33 That was it. You were going to give a student a lift weren't you?

Andy 16:35 No, I was gonna go and meet her for a coffee cuz she was coming back from our 18 plus group.

Jo 16:39 Oh, and yeah, you were telling me what you were gonna do.

Andy 16:41 Me and my innocence and naivety.

Jo 16:42 I know and I said, yeah, alarm bells started to go off. And I said, I don't think this is a good idea. I think you're putting yourself in a difficult position. And I wonder what her intentions are, and you hadn't seen it at all. And in fairness to you, you were quite innocent. But that's sometimes how these things happen isn't it really?

Andy 16:58 An innocent married man. So we ran an 18 plus group. One of the students that we looked after, she came back to where we were, and said 'Ooh I'm in the area can I just pop in'. And she was ringing around everybody and I was just the one person that happened to be in. And I said 'Oh, yeah, I'll come and have a coffee. And I just mentioned it to Jo in passing. It's like, I don't think you should do that on your own. Why are you meeting up with a strange girl? So I think Jo was right. But I hadn't clocked it. And this is the thing if you're having openness in your marriage, in a healthy way, it means I'm sharing with Jo what I'm doing therefore she can say 'I'm not sure that's healthy'. And what matters more? The coffee with a student, or my relationship with my wife

Andy 17:12 And then the dangers of a pretty woman.

Andy 17:38 This covers so many things. Yeha, okay, let's just flick through this one then. Proverbs chapter 6. I've lost it now. There we go.

Andy 17:52 "Keeping you from the immoral woman, and the smooth tongue or the wayward wife."

Andy 17:55 Well, what's keeping us? Well it's the commands. It's God's word. If we're not sure how it's supposed to live, then actually we, we go back to the Bible, it's the plumb line. It's interesting it's talking about the smooth tongue of the wayward wife, next to an immoral woman. The Bible isn't an accident. That's obviously for a reason. And I think, I think we need to be careful that we're not using who we are to get what we want in marriage in an unrighteous way.

Andy 18:22 We used the word righteous a lot in our family. Is this a righteous decision? Is this is a righteous thing? Is this God's best? The righteousness sort of comes out a lot in how we think and look at life, and decisions that we make. We're gonna replace the car a few years back. You know, is this a righteous thing or should we righteously keep the car? What's the right thing for us? What's righteous in God's eyes? And smooth talker, the way would wife. I mean, you know, this is kind of suggestive of a wife who's gone off on one. There's quite a few warnings in Proverbs, sorry if you don't like this, but this is true. Proverbs warns men quite a lot against women who can come and entice in to them. It doesn't warn women in the same way against men. There's a reason for that. You can figure that out on your own. And if you don't like it, take it up with God, not me! But then we're going into 'do not lust in your heart after her beauty'. So this is an mmoral woman, a wayward wife. Could be the same kind of person. A wife can be immoral. 'Do not let her captivate with your heart, for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread. So what happens with a prostitute? Well you pay them money, and you have sex, and its a business, you know, transaction. Only it's not! Because the Bible's very clear from that. It doesn't simply have just a physical thing. There's a spiritual connection to that as well. "The adulterous preys upon your very life".

Andy 19:37 It's happened before. I mean, what happened to Joseph in the scriptures? Let's just take a nice simple Bible example. Joseph, second choice world, living in Egypt, serving Potiphar Yes, got the right name! And then his wife wants to have sex with him. He says no runs away. So what is his wife the wife do? She says 'oh he's raped me', accuses him of doing nefarious deeds, and produces evidence. Well she's clearly an immoral woman, for one thing. Joseph had no choice. He was a slave. He was having to work there. But what did he do? The only thing he could do was run away. He did the right thing. It didn't work out for him at that moment, but it did later. But all we can do is shine a light on the truth and let God do the rest.

Jo 20:13 Yeah. So I'm trying to keep us to time. So wrap up this meaty bit.

Andy 20:18 I wanted to touch on modesty really quickly before we move on, because this is the thing it's been talked about a lot. There's a lot, I mean, I remember Jo coming back, I've just been told in a meeting that I should be able to be naked, and it shouldn't be a problem in a meeting room. And I'm thinking, this person needs psychological help. Because if you're naked in the meeting room, it's now indecency, and you should be arrested by the police for doing that. So, yeah, modesty's a really, it gets people's heckles up. But here's what I think about this is. Context is really important. Lee Evans, a comedian made a big joke about why is it we're okay with a bloke walking down the shops with his speedos on? We wouldn't do it on the high street in Birmingham! Why is it okay in Spain? Well, it's slightly different context. They're on holiday. So context does play a part in this.

Andy 21:02 But we're going to link to Jessica Rey, who is somebody who designed a range of swim wear. And she's got a brilliant TED Talk. Ted? Yeah. And it's all about the bikini and what does the bikini do? What does it do psychologically and mentally to men? What effect does it have on them? And she pulls no punches. It's a really good video, so we'll let her speak for herself on that one. But she ended up creating a line of swimwear because she just couldn't find stuff that she felt was suitable.

Andy 21:28 And we've met lots of mums over the years who said 'I can't buy my daughter this, this is a sexualized, short skirt, it's a crop top things like that, this is too sexualized, and it's not right'. And I think that's where we're at with modesty. Either you think, 'well I should be able to do what I want, wear what I want, amd you men, you sort it out. And often it is, you know, 'the woman should cover up' and' the man it's his problem'. And it's a woman's problem. And it's just this mess of, of nonsense.

Andy 21:52 But here's the thing. Men, you need to watch what your eyes are doing. Women don't cause men to stumble, that's in the scriptures. But, you know, men, you can cause a woman to stumble. And women can be interested just as much through sight. It isn't exclusively, you know, a man is visual and a woman isn't. That's not true, by the way, that's a lie. It may be partially true. It may be true for you, but it's not true for everybody. So I think we have to be careful with the modesty debate in particular, that we're not getting too het up on it. There is an issue of modesty. And it is important to be covered in an appropriate way. Because here's the thing. Here's the reason why the Bible talks about modesty. It doesn't really go on to what you're doing outside of the church, this is talking about our worship service. If you're going to a worship service, and you are drawing attention to yourself because of what you're wearing, then you've got it wrong. It's that simple. You need to change your dress, not a dress, I mean what you're wearing. Because we go to worship God. We go to edify other people. So if we were in a church context, and people are looking at us because of what we're wearing, it could be a t-shirt that's wildly offensive and inappropriate, as much as it could be a woman who's wearing far too little clothing.

Andy 23:05 I used to wear t-shirts that I probably shouldn't have done in church, and they used to draw the wrong attention. If we're doing that, then people can't worship God. Now they're looking at us. And I think the modesty debate, we need to get away from what women are doing to cause men to stumble, which is a issue, and a single issue and get back to what's the point of going to church? What's the point of worshipping? What are we supposed to do? Are we adorning ourselves, men and women, in order to get attention drawn upon us? Or are we doing what we do in order to take the people to look at God?

Jo 23:36 Yeah.

Andy 23:37 That's my thought on modesty. Really brief.

Jo 23:40 Let's take a break.

Andy 23:40 Broken Dreams, and Hope! is a new book, my first, very, very first book I've ever written. And it's all based out of the fact that in life, we have hardships and we have difficulties. We have things that will break us physically, emotionally, mentally, financially. There are these things that can come along that can cause us immense hurt and pain.

Andy 23:41 Maybe we've made a mistake, we've done something wrong, we have to face the consequences of that. We get broken.

Andy 23:55 Maybe we've just been caught up in a tragic accident. And we've been accidentally involved in something that has nothing to do with us. It breaks us.

Andy 24:15 Broken Dreams, and Hope! is a book that I've written specifically because I've been through some difficult times. I've been broken. But despite being broken, there was hope, and that hope has a name.

Andy 24:28 Broken Dreams, and Hope! is all about the fact that no matter how broken we may have been there is still hope.

Andy 24:35 And that hope has a name.

Andy 24:36 And that name is Jesus Christ!

Andy 24:50 So, we're back for Tips and Resources.

Jo 24:52 Yeah, so we've already given you some in the meaty part. Which was John Piper who talks about, you know, if you have naked person, you're, you're actually that's real. It's not like violence, which is made up in films. So we'll leave you that link to just ponder over and think about that.

Jo 25:09 The modesty stuff that Andy was talking about from Jessica Rey, again, there's a TED talk. It's really worth checking that out. So we'll leave that link for you to think about that and how that fits in with our, with us and within within marriages, really.

Jo 25:22 Because all of this links in doesn't it to how we are in life, and that affects our spouse. If we're kind of wearing certain things, and that's, you know, and our other halves aren't happy with that, it's gonna affect us, and we need to talk about that.

Jo 25:36 And then meditate on the scriptures. The scriptures are quite hard hitting, but I think they really give us boundaries, and help us to stay within the right line, coming back to that analogy at the start of how close do you get to the edge when you're driving? These scriptures will help us stay right on track, I think.

Andy 25:54 Yeah, we mentioned it last week, but it feels relevant to mention it once more. But it's that drop challenge. It doesn't actually affect us, 'cos we share mobile phones, and social media accounts, and all sorts. But, you know, if at any point you're on your phone, would you be happy for you to drop your phone in front of your other half, for them to look at what you're doing? If you're not, then you need to deal with that! This isn't about invasion of privacy. This is about being intimate in a marriage. And intimate in marriage means the way that you talk, and the way that you discuss finances, and you should have openness. And the more open your marriage is, the better it's gonna be. But we will come back into the conclusion about affair proofing your marriage, which we've mentioned before. Should you be affair proofing your marriage? But we'll come on to that.

Andy 26:36 But I just wanted to touch on a resource here, which is from 1 Corinthians 6, verse 18, which says this,

Andy 26:41 "Flee from sexual immorality, all other sins a man commits are outside his body, he who sins sexually, sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you receive from God? You are not your own. You are bought at a price therefore honour your God with your body."

Andy 26:57 If you are struggling with pornography, then you need to get some help for that. It is a chemical addiction. It's not necessarily as simple as 'oh I won't do it any more then'. It doesn't work that way. But it will affect your intimacy in your marriage and there's some really heartbreaking stories of married couples where pornography has become a thing, and they just, they can't be physically intimate anymore. Because, chemically, the brain's been altered. So get some help for that. Seriously. It's not necessarily easy to do that. Go and speak to someone in your church, or there's loads of websites that can help you.

Andy 27:28 But I was thinking this 1 Corinthians 6 verse 18 through 20. Just go and read that. Meditate on that. Is God asking you to flee from something? Is God asking you to do something? Don't ignore those warnings!

Andy 27:43 Take a break!

Nathan 27:50 "Physical training is good, but training for godliness is much better, promising benefits in this life, and in the life to come."

Nathan 27:59 The point of this scripture is that while physical training is good, it is beneficial for us, it keeps us fit, it keeps us healthy, it's not nearly as beneficial as spiritual training and all that makes up training for godliness, such as reading our Bibles, praying, and going to church. And that is the point of Endurance. It is to show how we can maintain self-discipline and how we can enjoy training for godliness.

Nathan 28:24 With that in mind, go check it out!

Andy 28:26 So, here we are for our last little segment of Endurance, Endurance, that was the advert for Endurance. For Marriage Matters!

Jo 28:48 Yep.

Andy 28:49 The meaty bit. No, The Take Away!

Jo 28:52 Oh, yes.

Andy 28:52 We did the meaty. This is the Take Away, it's the end.

Andy 28:54 So, one of the things we talked about, you might have seen the little advert we had, you might have seen that, we wanted to look at a fair proof your marriage. Is this something you do. We just wanted to cover a few little things with this, that we've we've kind of read about, and seen, and some things that are on my mind. And I think one of them is this. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you can somehow stop an affair by having enough sex. Because if you're in that mindset, then you've already missed the point that affairs aren't just about a physical transaction, if you like, trying to be, you know, PG a little bit. It's more than that! Men and women both crave an emotional, spiritual and physical connection. So don't think that you can affair proof your marriage just because you work really hard at having lots of sex 'cos that's not how it works! It's a really naive view sadly. It's not true. Yes, physical intimacy is important. But you can't do enough to stop sin happening in someone else's life. You can't prevent them from sinning' Cos we're gonna sin. We all do it. So trying to do that, yeah it's Good to have a good, healthy, intimate, physically intimate relationship. But don't think you can stop affairs by having enough sex.

Andy 30:07 And the other one that goes off the back of that, which perhaps is more the kind of American purity thing, but if as a wife, you, you know, say no to sex then you can cause an affair. If an affair happens because you didn't have sex one time, then you've got much deeper issues to resolve in your marriage. So don't don't fall into that trap.

Andy 30:25 But we wanted to look at can you Affair Proof your marriage? Should you Affair Proof your marriage? And I have a really simple thought on this one, which is this. If you want to find counterfeit money, when I was working in retail shops, they would give you a fake bit of money so you could see it. But they would say get the real ones and touch them. And the more you touch the real paper notes, as it was back then, no plastic polymer, then you can tell the difference. And as soon as you touch a fake one, you can feel it. They said don't study the fake one, study the real ones! And it was a really great example of why we should focus on the authentic.

Andy 31:00 If we are spending our time trying to prevent something from happening, then we are creating opportunities for that very thing to happen. Because what we should be doing is getting on with everything else. And, otherwise, we can run around in circles trying to stop something. It's like a dam that's got holes in it. At some point it's gonna break and you can stick your finger only in so many holes.

Andy 31:17 Actually is much better to focus on what you should be doing about developing a marriage, having time with one another, being open and honest with one another. And if you're investing in your marriage, that is the greatest defence to not having an affair. And investing means spending time with each other. Being honest. Having access to each other's phones. Not trying to have secrets away from each other. Not trying to compartmentalise, 'well, that's my work life, and my home life, and my married life, and, you know'. So I think there's this idea that somehow you can Affair Proof your marriage, and I think you can, but I think you do it by not trying to prevent an affair. I think what you do is you invest in the positive, rather than try to deny the negative.

Jo 31:47 Yeah, which we've covered on a lot of episodes, haven't we, Andy. We've, we've looked at Date Night, haven't we? And we've had different ways of spending time together, and looking after each other, loving one another, and all that kind of stuff. So, that, that's it isn't it? Love at the centre, isn't it? 1 Corinthians 13 is at the heart, isn't it?

Andy 32:13 Don't try and keep a lack of love out. Bring love in.

Jo 32:16 Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Andy 32:17 That's kind of my point.

Jo 32:18 Yeah. What's your takeaway, Andy?

Andy 32:22 My takeaway is, I think we need a cup of tea, because this is quite a hard hitting episode.

Jo 32:25 It is, isn't it!

Andy 32:26 I mean, this is kind of normal length. But I mean, we've, we've scratched, barely a few scriptures about this. Modesty is one that we could do 10 episodes on, and we'd upset everybody, I'm sure. Check out that video we talked about the tips and resources. At least understand what wearing a bikini does to a man. It's relevant and it's quite interesting. It's quite shocking when you first hear what it does psychologically, and scientifically proven. But it's good to know. We need the truth. Don't deny the truth.

Andy 32:55 So, yeah, my takeaway is that I should have asked you first. My Take Awat is I think it's really difficult to have an affair. Can I say that? Am I allowed to say that? I think it's really difficult to have an affair. And here's why I say that, 'cos it sounds a bit like 'what?!?' I know I say weird and wacky stuff sometimes. But I think it's really hard to have an affair, because it doesn't ever just happen.

Andy 33:21 I remember something you used to talk about and people would say, 'Well, I don't know how to stop drinking' and they go out to the pub, and they get drunk. It's like well 'How do I not have an accident and a fight?' 'Well, why were you in the pub?' If going to the pub means you're gonna drink, then don't go to the pub. That's cutting your right hand off. That's cutting your eye out and gouging it out. Not literally! But it's 'don't put yourself in a place where some't can happen'. So in the same way, I don't think affairs just happen. I don't think it's 'Oh, whoops a daisy'. I think that's a really naive, foolish, mentality. Affairs happen because we choose them. And if it's not a choice, then it's not an affair, I'm not going down that road. But, yeah, I don't think they just happen. But the Proverbs are full of warnings to men about women who will come along with 'a smooth tongue dripping with honey' is how the Proverbs put it, and they wanna try and entice you away from Scripture. So what's our defence to anybody who comes our way? Are you sure it said that? Well you go back to Scripture.

Jo 34:13 Yeah, I think I'm just reminded about the dangers really of all this stuff, isn't it. And just how it's not something to be laughed off. It's not funny. It's not 'Oh, dear'. It's, it's very serious. And the scriptures are very clear and there to help us, which is really reassuring and helpful.

Andy 34:31 It's funny that!

Jo 34:32 Yeah.

Andy 34:34 So this has been a rather heavy episode. We'll try and do some't more light next week.

Jo 34:38 Yeah, let's do that!

Andy 34:39 I'm not sure what. We'll think of a slightly lighter topic than affairs and sex outside of marriage.

Jo 34:43 Yeah.

Andy 34:44 But yeah. Hope you enjoyed this episode. This has been, I needanother cup of tea.

Jo 34:48 Yeah. Thanks for joining us. My name's Jo.

Andy 34:50 Yea, and I'm Andy.

Jo 34:52 We'll be back.

Andy 34:53 I'm tired now. We will be back, sorry about that! We'll be back again. Bye for now.

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