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In this week’s Marriage Matters, Andy B and Jo do some more straight talking about sex in marriage – ‘Let’s get physical’ Part 2 – still focusing on the good stuff and the benefits!

Jo recaps from the last episode and both Andy and Jo realise that they covered quite a lot, including, how we need to talk about sex openly, that we need to be careful what we watch – sex scenes in films are not always helpful – you can’t unsee something! – practising sex in marriage means it gets better – practise makes perfect!

It’s the same scripture verses as the first ‘Let’s get physical’ episode, all relevant, all apply and good stuff!

  • Matthew 19:6
  • 1 Corinthians 6:18
  • 1 Corinthians 7:5

You could also check out the celebration of sex in the song of songs!

Tips and Resources

  • Read Song of songs in the bible
  • Read ‘The Message of the Song of Songs’ by Tom Gledhill to help you understand this book on sex in the bible – yes in the bible!
  • Read ‘Sex, Romance and the Glory of God’ by C.J Mahaney and/ or
  • Read ‘Feminine Appeal’ by Carolyn Mahaney
  • And finally if this was not enough why not check out ‘Hot, Holy & Humorous by J.Parker

The Take Away

Andy and Jo both reiterate the importance of sex and the benefits within a marriage between one man and one woman.

Andy B concludes that God has a best plan for sex, that there are loads of obstacles to having sex in marriage and that we need to make sure these obstacles are not ones that don’t need to be there.

Jo, as promised, reveals her favourite sexual moment in their marriage, well two or was it three or four!

Sex is so good that Andy B and Jo realised they need to do it justice and plan to come back with Part 3 and 4 of sex to get physical again!

Andy and Jo


Andy 0:24 And welcome to another episode where the awesomeness of Marriage Matters. I'm Andy B, and I have a cold.

Jo 0:30 And I'm Jo and I've also got a bit of a cold.

Andy 0:33 Actually, my cold's kind of gone. But, it, I sound bad. So, I've got a little drink to keep me going. You're very welcome to join us as we take another look at something awesome.

Jo 0:41 Yeah

Andy 0:42 Which we'll come on to. But the best thing you can do to stay in touch, and never miss a thing that we do, is to like us on Facebook, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel, although we're also on Vimeo now as well. You can even find us on Tumblr. And on Twitter, we can tweet along [Andy sings].

Jo 0:59 No

Andy 0:59 Without that. No. Too much?

Jo 1:01 Too much!

Andy 1:02 We're not doing that sort of tweeting on Twitter. And the best thing, of course, is for you to sign up to Berry Bytes, which is our weekly newsletter. And it's Berry Bytes with a Y?

Jo 1:11 Y not.

Andy 1:14 Because Y not?

Jo 1:17 Yes. So this, this

Andy 1:19 What are we covering this week dear?

Jo 1:20 Well, it's Let's get physical. And it's Part 2. It's all about sex in marriage, intimacy. And we figured we couldn't cover it. There's a lot to cover in, in one, and we're actually going to do part three aren't we.

Andy 1:32 There'll be a Part 3.

Jo 1:32 So we're focusing on the good things in marriage, so, with sex, because so, sometimes we just look at the bad stuff, don't we? And so sex in marriage is God's best for us. And it's a normal part of life. So I thought I'd recap on what we talked about in Part 1.

Andy 1:51 Good. 'Cos I've forgotten what we did.

Jo 1:52 And then we'll take it from there, so we don't, yeah, so we don't repeat ourselves!

Jo 1:55 So what did we do? So we, we talked about the importance of talking about sex openly and allowing our children to ask questions, and let them talk about it.

Andy 2:03 You mean, like a normal conversation?

Jo 2:04 Yeah absolutely. It's, it's a normal part of life.

Andy 2:07 Yes.

Jo 2:07 We talked about the fact that films have sex scenes, which aren't particularly helpful.

Andy 2:12 No!

Jo 2:13 There's a warning there, really, because you can't unsee what you've seen.

Andy 2:16 No.

Jo 2:16 And we also think that films can sometimes give sex a bad name. So just to warn you there.

Andy 2:22 You mean like the Hollywood sex scene, where both people have never met each other have, you know, amazing, kind of orgasmic sex? It's like, no, no, sorry, no!

Jo 2:31 No! Andy shared a negative experience about, sort of, a six month period where we didn't have sex. And, you know, we didn't do any kissing. But reassured us with the fact that we will have hard times. We will have difficulties, but we can get through it. And we've been married now. 25 years haven't we.

Andy 2:50 Or as you said in our first episode, 'we've managed to last, or you've managed to last 25 years.

Jo 2:55 Yeah, well, we can get through the bad patches. We stressed the importance of kissing in marriage, and the importance of how we feel emotionally and mentally towards sex. Sex isn't just for having babies.

Andy 3:10 No.

Jo 3:11 And we thought practice makes perfect. Or I should say, it makes it better.

Andy 3:15 Yes.

Jo 3:15 So the more you stay with the same person, and keep practising the better it comes. And God created us man, one man and one woman to be together in marriage. And, and so sex is clearly important.

Andy 3:28 Yep!

Jo 3:29 But sex can be done wrong in marriage, as well as outside of marriage. So, you know, it's interesting, the Bible talks about, it's a sin, if you getting it wrong. It's against your own body. So we'll, we'll talk about that a bit more probably. The Bible tells us not to give up having sex for a long period of time.

Andy 3:49 But it's not a baseball bat to force your other to have sex with you

Jo 3:52 No, not at all! And we thought it was interesting how the devil tries to make you have sex before marriage. And then once you're married, seems to do everything to stop you. So we thought that's an interesting one.

Jo 4:03 We also said not to get lazy in marriage. So, you know, we shouldn't make sex a low priority. So it's something we need to sort of plan and make sure we do prioritise.

Andy 4:14 You can plan for spontaneity, because what you can do is create a time that's blocked off in order that you can be spontaneous.

Jo 4:22 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 4:23 Nothing wrong with that.

Jo 4:23 No. And then finally, we basically looked at the benefits of sex. Now I talked about how it gave me a clearer mind, more confidence, I felt more self worth, and valued. And, Andy, you talked about that you didn't struggle so much particularly when you look, see, not your fault, but you might see scantily clad women or something. So real benefits, lots of good stuff in our last session.

Andy 4:45 It sounds like we talked about a lot last time.

Jo 4:46 We did, didn't we.

Andy 4:47 And we really, really did, which is why there's now a Part 2, and there'll be a Part 3 after this as well.

Jo 4:52 Yeah, but also what we're going to do this Part 2, let me just give you a taster. Frequency of sex 'cos we promised we would talk about.

Andy 4:59 Yes.

Jo 5:00 Expectations and false messages

Andy 5:02 Yes.

Jo 5:03 that we might bring into the marriage. Advantages of a healthy sex life. And in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were naked. They didn't have any clothes on.

Andy 5:13 No.

Jo 5:14 We're gonna talk about that. And I had to think over the week about my favourite memory of our experience of sex, so I will share that as well.

Andy 5:21 Awesome 'cos I don't know what that is yet. So that's quite good. Shall we take a little break?

Jo 5:25 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 5:28 In 2018, Jo and I were full time children's ministers, loving what we were doing, and wanting to share our resources freely with others to use scroll on two years to 2020. And we'd finally launched our website. chocked full of resources.

Andy 5:45 It was a bit embarrassing, we had one video, but we've now got nearly 500 videos for you to use, stream, share, and download with 900 posts, all full of information that you are free to use in your situation, whether that's a church, or family, or just for your own personal use.

Andy 6:02 We've been asked to do all sorts of things, we've made logos for somebody who wanted a new logo for their blog. We've been asked to create children's a discipleship group, so we've done that.

Andy 6:11 We've been asked to create a book about Broken Dreams, and Hope! and we've done that as well. We love creating resources that are relevant to your situation. So get in touch with what your needs are.

Andy 6:22 Our vision and our passion is to create material that is family safe, For Free, For All wherever you are in the world. And that is exactly what we do. So if you want to help us continue to do that, or if you want us to make something specific for your situation, then get in touch.

Jo 6:54 Welcome back to the Meaty Section of Marriage Matters.

Andy 6:58 The Meaty Section, why does it always sound better with a cold?

Jo 7:01 Sounds cool doesn't it!

Andy 7:02 I can't get that low normally.

Jo 7:04 Yeah. So we are looking at Let's Get Physical, sex in marriage. This is Part 2. And we're going to start with frequency of sex in marriage. What are your thoughts on this Andy?

Andy 7:16 I have a few. Oh you want me to share them?

Jo 7:19 I would ike you to, yes.

Andy 7:20 Oh, ok, yeah, that's fine. So frequency of sex. I think the first thing to say is, the right number of times to have sex a week is whatever's right for you, in your situation, given your circumstanc. Factor in things like age, workload, small children. We've been through that. We've now got older teenagers, that's a different season. You can't quite get it on, quite so easily in the lounge, when they're coming through for their 14th snack of the night so you have to be a bit more creative! So there isn't a proper frequency.

Andy 7:51 The story that comes to mind is of a man and wife on their wedding day, are going from the ceremony to their honeymoon. And they get involved in a tragic accident. And this man's wife wasn't killed. But she was paralysed, I think from the neck down, if memory serves. So they never got to the honeymoon. So they never got to have sex for the first time. They never got to have sex in their marriage. It was no less a marriage before God, and this guy looked after his wife until she died, which was many, many years, many decades. He honoured that commitment to her. And there is no right frequency of having sex in the marriage, that's really important to say! Pain, illness, sickness, there's all sorts of things that can get in the way.

Andy 8:31 Being forced away from each other. I mean, what's the American military, it's a year at a time? The English military, is it 3 or 6 months, I think? So you can't say well, this is what you should be. And if it's not, then it's not good enough, because that's not right or fair. So the right frequencies is the right frequency for you!.

Andy 8:47 You have to balance, one of you is probably gonna be wanting to have physical intimacy more than the other. We think of that quite often, it's termed as the high drive spouse, and the low drive spouse. Somewhere in the middle of those two, maybe if one of you wants it every day, and one of you wants it once a week, then somewhere in the middle, you know, that probably works better. Marriage is about compromise at the end of the day. And this is another area to compromise as well.

Andy 9:13 I guess, an average marriage, an every situation, average health, you've got contact with each other all the time, 'cosyou're not away, you know, once every three or four days, I guess. But again, don't take that as 'oh it's every five days, it's not good enough', or 'it's once every two days, that's too much'. It really doesn't work that way. So you need to balance, for your situation, for your marriage, for your situation. It's gonna change. And it's gonna change over time. When you're 50 you haven't got as much energy for anything, as you do when you're 20. I'm not 50 yet, but Jo tells me she hasn't got as much energy in her 50s as she did in her 20s. So these are going to change you know. I do know however, I've read enough accounts from other marriage bloggers who've got older where the frequency may drop off, but the intensity kind of increases, because now they've got more time! So rather than having sex, and it's, you know, half an hour. Now it's like five hours of foreplay, and food, and dinner. And it's much more protracted because they can. So it's gonnachange how it looks as much as how often it is.

Jo 10:14 Yeah, I mean, we gave some Bible scriptures last time, and one of them is about not sort of stopping having sex, unless you want to have time of prayer and things. So I suppose what we're talking about is healthy, isn't it to choose together how long, and in the different seasons? But, be careful that you don't sort of deliberately don't do it, or use ill health or whatever?

Andy 10:36 Don'g get legalistic!

Jo 10:36 An excuse? Yeah, don't get legalistic or religious about it. Don't use it an excuse or a way of controlling your spouse.

Andy 10:44 I think, just on this one, I was I was saying to Jo, why is it that God wants sex within a marriage? What is it about a husband and a wife, and sex, within the confines of a marriage before God, that God sees as His best? What, what is it about that, that the Bible goes on about it so clearly. That Paul, and his teachings makes such a point. And I think one of them is sex is is never to be used as a weapon against each other. It's a, it's a weapon of warfare against the enemy to bind you together as a couple. But don't ever use it as a baseball bat, to get what you want, or to stop somebody doing something. It's not about that. God's design for sex is to bring you together. It enables you to come together in a way that you couldn't do otherwise, as a husband and a wife. So don't flip that on its head, and 'well we're not having it enough, therefore, it's not good enough'. That that's not, that's not the point. That's the Pharisee version.

Jo 11:33 But it's interesting, the Scripture tells us, actually, it's the one sin that if you don't do it correctly, if it's lost, or it's done incorrectly, or it's become, it's sinful, you're actually doing it to yourself aren't you. It's a sin that you're actually doing to your own body. So, if you do decide to use sex for all the wrong reasons, you're actually shooting yourself in the foot. You're literally doing it against yourself, which is interesting, isn't it?

Andy 11:54 Yeah, it is!

Jo 11:55 So not just the other person.

Andy 11:57 No, no.

Jo 11:57 Yeah. So frequency we're saying, you know, really, it's down to you as a couple. Pray together. Think about it, you know, to do everything to the glory of God, isn't it?

Andy 12:06 I do know, of a Christian woman whose name I can't remember, and I can't find her website. But she did a study. Now it was for a book she was writing, but I don't have a problem with the reasons why she did it. But she said to her husband, right, unless it's my period, I want to have sex with you once a day. And I want to do this for a year, I think it was a year, and see what happens to our relationship. 'Cos she was really interested. She was kind of a bit into the sort of science and the research.

Andy 12:29 So they had sex every day. Was it a year? Was it six months. It doesn't really matter. For a long period of time they had sex every day, except for you know, was it three, four days a month when she was on her period? Therefore, they didn't do that. And they did it for a year. And she said, some days it was like, 'okay, let's go and have sex then'.

Andy 12:46 Here's the really interesting thing. When that experiment came to an end, and she was interested to see what would happen afterwards. It was the first day afterwards, and they didn't have sex together. And they were both, 'well, I don't feel very close to you now.' And I think that's interesting, because that's what sex does. And it's not about the frequency. It was an experiment, kind of. It's a healthy experiment. But it was a good thing to try. But it was what happened as soon as I stopped that daily sex. It was interesting!

Jo 13:14 So if you want closeness in your relationship, with your, your partner, then you know, sex is the way to go, isn't it?

Andy 13:21 It's a very good way.

Jo 13:21 A good way, if you can. I mean, obviously, there are other things that can be done to help you stay close.

Andy 13:25 Yeah.

Jo 13:25 But it does bring closeness.

Andy 13:27 Yep.

Jo 13:27 Brilliant. So moving on to our next subject that we're trying to cover, is the expectations of sex.

Andy 13:33 Oh, wow.

Jo 13:34 Sort of the things that we bring into the marriage, the false messages, I suppose. What have you got to say about that?

Andy 13:40 Oh, plenty. I've got plenty to say about everything. Have you not learned this abot me yet?

Jo 13:45 I hvae yeah.

Andy 13:45 I think even these, whoever's watching this now, knows I've got lots to say about lots of things. What's the question?

Jo 13:51 False messages

Andy 13:52 Okay

Jo 13:52 that we bring into a marriage.

Andy 13:53 I think there are things. I mean, we talk about sexual baggage that you bring into your marriage. And that's an obvious one. If you've been having sex before marriage, either with the person you go on to marry, or with other people, then that's something you need to get and deal with. But that's an obvious one.

Andy 14:07 There's other messages. There's the purity culture in America, which caused so much damage. The heart of it was just keep yourselves pure until you get married. But then what happened is, off the back of that, were all these people getting married and, especially the women, because it was so heavy on the, on the, on the wives, they saw sex as dirty and wrong, because they've been taught it's evil. It's wrong. Well, yeah, outside of God's plan for a marriage. Yes, it's not God's best. But the problem is, if you go too heavy on that, and you become legalistic, when you get married, you see it as dirty and wrong, and now you can, but they couldn't mentally make that shift. And it was really painful. So I'm kind of glad that purity culture, as, as good as the heart was, at one level, it caused so much damage. Because it was a really powerful message that made sex this thing that's so disgustingly dirty and off limits, that even within the context of a marriage, making that shift is really hard when you, when you've had that, you know, rammed at you.

Andy 15:02 So, you know, don't think it's okay to have sex out of marriage. God's got a plan. Husband. Wife. Marriage. Sex. Right, there you go. But you can, you can train people the wrong way too. You can make it such a taboo subject that they're so frightened and terrified of it that you know, it can be a real issue.

Jo 15:10 Yeah.

Andy 15:19 And that's not God's plan. It's not designed to, to tie you down into feeling heavy and dirty. It's supposed to be liberating, and tie together as a couple.

Jo 15:27 Yeah, you said something about, there might be simple things. And there are the obvious ones. Sex before marriage, or experiences where you've seen your parents act in a particularly bad way, if there's been infidelity in your home life, or.

Andy 15:39 We're both from divorced families. And divorce was a word that we used for a while, until we realised that we really need to get rid of that word, 'cos it wasn't healthy.

Jo 15:46 Yeah, so we, you, you bring those attitudes. But is there something you've picked up along the way from, from films, or your expectations of it being all, you know, perfect and, you know, because they do that in films. They make it look so good. And so

Andy 16:00 Can I just say, if, if your idea of what sex is like, is from a film, you're going to be really heavily disappointed. I can pretty much guarantee it. Sex is so much better than what you see on the film as portrayed.

Jo 16:11 We've found ourselves laughing, haven't we, because it's got really, you know. Sometimes you think what, why, do, what sex, you know, because we've laughed haven't we! We've been laughing.

Andy 16:11 Oh, it's hilarious!

Jo 16:19 Some'ts gone wrong, or falling over? Or I may have hit you in the face by accident or something.

Andy 16:25 Yeah, cramp. Cramp in the leg.

Jo 16:28 Cramp, yeah.

Andy 16:28 That happens.

Jo 16:29 And that doesn't happen in the films.

Andy 16:30 But you watch it in the Hollywood and it really? No, no!

Jo 16:34 But it brings you closer together. That's the point, isn't it, when you know, you sort of muddle through together, and you learn together.

Andy 16:40 You find a way.

Jo 16:41 Yeah. So that was, yeah, bringing sort of expectations in.

Andy 16:44 Other stuff. Things like restricting sex. So it's, okay, a bit of a stereotype, but it helps me paint the picture and it's the gatekeeping wife. It's the one that, "Well, if you do these, you can have sex." Now that's evil. That's horrible. If you're using sex to get what you want, as a wife, or as a husband, but let's stick with this stereotype image for a minute, as a wife. If sex is what you're using 'Well you can have sex if you do this, and that' you're not loving your husband.

Andy 17:07 And the husband that says, 'Well, you need to have sex with me or I won't do these things' it's just as wrong. One isn't worse than the other. But the stereotype, it's one of those things, The Gatekeeper Wife' that, but that uses her body, and sex, as a way of controlling her husband. And it's just not right. You know, 'Take the bins out every day'. 'Well you didn't put the bins out for one of the days.' You know, God doesn't trick us into things. And, you know, we shouldn't be tricking each other into bed, or our bed. That's just not helpful.

Jo 17:31 Yeah.

Andy 17:31 And here's off the back of that one. Masturbation can be an issue for, for men and women. But here's the thing about that one. When you get married, the only person that can sexually satisfy you, in a relationship that now has been opened up to needing sexual satisfaction, is your wife in my case. And for Jo, her husband in me. So, you know, don't think 'Well just go and sort yourself out'. I've heard women talking about it. Oh, well, I'd rather he watches pornography, it gives me a night off. You know, apart from the fact that no, you shouldn't be causing your brother to stumble, we'll just put that to one side for a minute, the only person your husband get that satisfaction from is you. The fact he desires you is a good thing. So you end up in these crazy situations where people just gone so off. It's like there's so much to deal with.

Jo 18:14 Yeah. So yeah, expectations.

Andy 18:17 We're not even scratching the surface.

Jo 18:18 I know!

Andy 18:19 We're kind of blowing at it here.

Jo 18:19 We'll just breeze across that one. I'm sure we could, we'll talk about that a lot, couldn't we? And the only other subject that we wanted to sort of look at was in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, before the fall, before everything went pear shaped.

Andy 18:31 I had this idea.

Jo 18:32 What was it? Oh no!

Andy 18:33 Adam and Eve, this was my idea!

Jo 18:34 We haven't talked about this. Oh, what?

Andy 18:34 Well, apart from the fact we're going to talk about. No, it struck me that Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden of Eden before the fall. Eve then goes off, gets tempted by the devil, eats the, eats the, well we call it the apple, it's the fruit from the tree. Adam then does the same, and now they're living in sin. It's the fall.

Andy 18:52 And then they get embarrassed about how, the fact they've got, you know, no clothes on. God makes some clothes out of fig leaves, and they're covered again. But there's this period of time when it was good when they were naked. And, and this is something. I've met a few people. I've not really many men that say this, but I've met enough women over my time that say this, in various kind of contexts, when they're actually happy to talk about it. Work in a factory, you'll get some honest opinions! But they have this thing where, well, I won't let my husband see me, you know, before with the makeup on in the morning, they have this false image. And it's just, you know, be honest and real before yourselves, then your marriage will grow.

Jo 19:24 Yeah, I mean, yeah, being, being naked. And I mean we do feel sometimes a bit self, self conscious, perhaps if we've lost, if we've put on a bit of weight, or. We all feel uncomfortable with our body sometimes, but that's the beauty of an intimacy, and the sex and, and that's why over time, it becomes easier 'cos you get used to each other's bodies and how we look and stuff like that.

Andy 19:46 That vulnerability's a really good, important thing.

Jo 19:49 Yeah, yeah.

Andy 19:49 Vulnerabilities good in a marriage.

Jo 19:51 And, that is, you can't get any more vulnerable, I suppose then naked. 'Cos that's what they say, isn't it? If you want to get, if you want to be confident when you're standing in front of a crowd of people, they say pretend they're naked or something isn't it?

Andy 20:01 I'm not sure that's gonna help in this one.

Jo 20:03 But nakedness does, you know it.

Andy 20:05 It does help. No clothes in the way makes sex a lot easier, let's be honest!

Jo 20:09 That's true. A very practical tip there.

Andy 20:11 Absolutely. Andy's practical tips. Shall we take a break?

Jo 20:15 I think so!

Andy 20:22 So Endurance, wait, no, first, I'm Steven.

Nathan 20:26 I'm Nathan.

Steven 20:27 And we're brothers actually,

Nathan 20:29 Yeah, in case you hadn't noticed, you know. I know the much more masculine physique on this side may have thrown you off.

Andy 20:37 Yeah, I'm actually older.

Nathan 20:39 Yep.

Steven 20:40 Taller, stronger, fitter.

Nathan 20:43 Maybe?

Steven 20:44 No, definitely.

Nathan 20:46 Anyway, that's not the point of Endurance. It's Spiritual Training, not physical.

Steven 20:50 Yep, yep.

Nathan 20:50 Not that we, obviously we don't compete that much.

Steven 20:53 Nor spiritually. You shouldn't compete spiritually either.

Nathan 20:56 No.

Steven 20:56 No.

Nathan 20:57 But I am better than you.

Steven 20:57 I dunno know what to say to that.

Nathan 21:02 There is no, no answer.

Steven 21:04 So the point of Endurance is all about 1 Timothy

Nathan 21:06 Take the mick out each other.

Steven 21:08 All About one Timothy 4 verse 8, which says, 'Physical training is good but training for godliness is much better'. And so it was an idea which, I think it was my idea actually wasn't it?

Nathan 21:20 It was it was a joint effort. There's no I in team.

Andy 21:23 Yeah, so it was definitely my idea.

Nathan 21:25 Yeah.

Steven 21:25 And the idea being that we have to, well, I was challenged, because basically, I enjoy exercise. I was doing lots of weight training, lots of running, and I was getting a bit obsessed

Nathan 21:35 You were failing to train spiritually.

Steven 21:38 Yeah, you could say that I was idolising physical fitness rather than

Nathan 21:42 So we created Endurance to help him learn better how to balance spiritual and physical training.

Andy 21:48 Yeah, basically. Ok.

Nathan 21:52 'Cos I've already cracked it.

Andy 21:53 No, no.

Steven 21:55 No?

Steven 21:56 You've got a long way to go yet. So go check this out.

Nathan 22:01 I can see it like the end of the tunnel. I mean, you're way beyond.

Steven 22:05 Cut!

Andy 22:05 And we're back for Tips and Resources. Tips and, no, I'll just end up coughing. So Tips and Resources. To be honest, we're doing the same as last week, not because we're lazy, but 'cos these are really good resources. So, in no particular order, we have husband and wife team. CJ MAHANEY and Carolyn MAHANEY. I think I misquoted Carolyn last week.

Jo 22:40 Oh, okay.

Andy 22:40 She does a thin about a jam sandwich. Okay, they call it jelly and whatever in America. But, you know, we'll forgive em. But yeah, so she basically, the, the wife was saying, how, what do I do, I can't do everything in the house, and we're not having sex. And she basically said, 'Well, look, just don't worry about the 5 course meal for your husband. Just make him a jam sandwich, then take him to bed'.

Andy 23:00 And she also, in a conference, which I slightly misquoted, but not deliberately, she was asked about what she could do. She was on a panel at a conference, what could you do to support your husband. And effectively what she said was, well go make love to him, and that'll help him. And there was kind of laughing and stuff. And I think that's quite valid. It makes you feel ten foot tall when your wife wants to make love to you. Its, it just makes you feel good.

Andy 23:22 Hot, Holy and Humorous by J Parker. A really good book. If you want some tips on, I mean, I think, I've read the book now, and it's really good, because what she does is just takes it really basic, like you've never met a man before, and you're a wife and you dunno know quite what to do. And she takes you through everything. She kind of goes through the physiology, and the biology, and how it works, and all that kind of stuff. We haven't even talked about mood and feelings, and how that affects sex. That'll be Part 3, or Part 18 At this rate.

Andy 23:22 The last one is a bit of a study book, 'cos it is a study book. Its 'The message of the Song of Songs", by Tom Gledhill. He really looks through, very well, at the Song of Songs, and why is it that my wife's teeth having pairs are good. And why is her neck like a tower or something? And it goes through all that It's very good!

Jo 24:08 There's some fantastic resources there! Same as we had last week. And I'm sure there are others.

Andy 24:13 Oh, there's loads!

Jo 24:14 Other books, just to find something Christian to help you on, on your travels. Again, I would say the same. Praying, and talking together about what your needs are, what your expectations are. When we first met ,and I know we've said this in a different episode, we had a dog cushion where we shared our, poured our heart out.

Andy 24:32 The Dog Cushion was just a really large cushion with a picture of a dog.

Jo 24:33 Yeah. Yeah. But you know, being honest about how you feel, and what you expect, what you've been through. I think we shared and opened up about our experience, our previous experiences with other relationships as well. So that's kind of helpful. Put it out there. Get that honesty time, and that helps a relationship, doesn't it? And of course talking about sex. We've said the importance of talking about sex. Well you need to talk about sex with each other. I know some people prefer to do it in the dark. Or maybe they want the lights on. Some people have mirrors don't they and things and some people would like absolutely hate that.

Jo 24:34 We lived in a house that had, well, it was mirrors on a wardrobe. But every every door in the wardrobe was mirrored and I never was comfortable with that.

Jo 25:13 No, no.

Andy 25:15 No!

Jo 25:15 And I think, sometimes, well, you know, candles can be nice, a candle lit sort of thing

Andy 25:15 We have battery candles.

Jo 25:22 Yeah.

Andy 25:22 Much safer!

Jo 25:22 So much safer. Because we did have an incident where we got into things and, well.

Andy 25:24 Okay, here's a tip and resource.

Jo 25:25 Yes!

Andy 25:25 If you're having passionate time with your other half, and you have a candle. You know how it says candles can spontaneously like erupt into this massive thing. We did have a candle that, while we were otherwise

Jo 25:38 Busy!

Andy 25:38 engaged it did suddenly go from a little tiny light, then the whole thing lit up.

Jo 25:43 That stopped us in our tracks.

Andy 25:45 Well, it did 'cos I had an alarm clock and basically wacked it over the top 'cos it was terrifying. There was a noise like a 'whoosh', then off it went!

Jo 25:50 Yeah that, that, that spoiled the mood a bit didn't it?

Andy 25:53 It did a little bit. It recked me alarm clock as well.

Jo 25:55 Yeah, top tip. Maybe get some battery powered candles if you're, you know, gonna be busy. As romantic as candles are.

Andy 26:03 Yeah, we talked about things getting in the way like cramp, and whatever, but yeah.

Jo 26:07 That's another one!

Andy 26:07 Candles suddenly going up.

Jo 26:08 Yeah. So pray together, talk it through. Share, be open, you know, and be sensitive to each other's needs and things. Yeah,

Andy 26:16 Snall we take a little break?

Jo 26:17 Yeah.

Andy 26:17 And then we'll come back again.

Andy 26:20 I was asked to record a video and write a book by a friend. He had seen so many people with broken dreams, just hopeless about the life they were living, and the life before them. So I wrote a book. It's my very first book. It's called Broken Dreams, and Hope!

Andy 26:36 It's based on my own life, some struggles that I've had, and the fact that through those struggles, however bad they were, whether they were caused by me, or caused against me, throughout all of that, there was still hope.

Andy 26:51 Let me just read a few things that people who've read this book already have said,

Andy 26:55 "It's a page turner, with each chapter leaving you wanting to read just one more."

Andy 26:59 "You gave the reader motivation to look up and grab the hand that can lift you up on your feet and walk you through life's muddy mire. And I love the way you spoke of hurt and abuse, but never going into details, that would have robbed the reader of their own inward pains and ability to take hold of the Lord's extended hand. The hand that will never let go."

Andy 27:22 Broken Dreams, and Hope! is a book I wrote because I know what it is to have broken dreams. I know what it is to feel hopeless. But I also know what it is to have hope. Because that hope has a name, and that name is Jesus Christ!

Jo 27:52 And welcome back to our Take Away This is the last part of Marriage Matters.

Andy 27:56 The Take Away.

Jo 27:58 For we're talking about

Andy 27:59 That sounds good, The Take Away?

Jo 28:01 Let's Get Physical Part 2. Now, we've talked about frequency of sex. We've talked about, ooh, let me see what have we talked about? We talked about expectations that have come into a marriage.

Andy 28:10 Baggage?

Jo 28:10 False, yeah, baggage. And we talked about in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were naked. And we talked about, in and around, advantages of a healthy sex life. So there's tonnes of things we've covered.

Andy 28:21 Aand some of the things that might get in the way.

Jo 28:23 Yes. So what are you taking away from this?

Andy 28:25 What am I taking away? That I haven't talked about something that was quite important, that we're going to cover in the next episode, but I want to cover this episode, a little bit now.

Jo 28:33 Is?

Andy 28:34 Okay, there's this thing about, and it isn't really a stereotype, it is kind of, there's a misunderstanding that a wife says, 'Well, I need to be in the mood before I can be intimate'. And we're not talking about forcing someone to have sex, okay, we've made that so abundantly clear, never ever force someone to have sex. That's always wrong.

Andy 28:51 But there's this thing that, you know, the wife's got to be in the mood before she's ready for sex. But here's the thing about that is, most of the time, that's a load of rubbish. Because, actually, the wife will be getting into the mood through the process of lovemaking. And this is some't J Parker's picked up a lot, is that women think they've got to be in the mood before they start. So because they're not in the mood, they won't start. But you're not gonna get in the mood until you start. So until you start you won't be in the mood. And it's this, know, vicious circle.

Andy 29:17 So, again, never, ever, ever try and think we've got to force sex.

Jo 29:21 No.

Andy 29:21 But at the same time, if you start walking in a particular way, it'll improve your gait. And if you do something, you'll start to follow, And, actually, if you start to go down the road of making love, it'll, it'll help. And when we first got married, what is it you did from Stormie Omartian's advice? About when you weren't in the mood? What did she say to go and do when your, when your husband says can we have sex now. What did she say?

Jo 29:40 I can't remember.

Andy 29:40 Oh, fantastic!

Jo 29:41 What?

Andy 29:42 So the advice that you then shared with me later was, go off to the bathroom, go and pray. And pray for yourself to want to make love to your husband. And then come back and make love to him.

Jo 29:50 I was gonna say pray, but I couldn't remember specifically from that book, yeah.

Andy 29:53 Well, it was a prayer thing.

Jo 29:53 I guess that's what I, yeah, always pray whatever you do pray. And, yeah, and it does make a difference doesn't it. Absolutely!

Andy 30:00 So don't let feelings. Here's the thing, don't let feelings guide actions in your life. 'Cos because feelings can be a useful thermometer, but then they're useless after that.

Jo 30:08 Yeah.

Andy 30:08 It's like hindsight. You know, mind your head, when you've banged it. Great, thanks for that. But in the same context, if you're waiting, as a woman to be in the mood, you might be waiting a long time. And that can be one of the easiest barriers to fix. And, actually, you know, make the efforts towards making live and, all of a sudden, you're more interested in making that.

Jo 30:26 Yeah.

Andy 30:26 Would that be true?

Jo 30:27 Yeah, there's a balance as well though. Because I mean, there are, feelings do come into it.

Andy 30:30 Like headaches.

Jo 30:31 So you've been

Andy 30:32 Tiredness, nausea.

Jo 30:33 If you've been really nasty to your other half all day long and then

Andy 30:36 Which obviously never happens

Jo 30:37 and then expect it. It's like, well, you need to sort that problem out, before. I don't know if you can have the phrase 'don't make love angry', or something like you don't drive angry. But I don't think you would. You would you wouldn't do it would you, if you're angry. And that's the thing, isn't it? So yeah, though emotions do play a part and you do need to make sure you're right with each other, but yeah, don't

Andy 30:55 So, what's my takeaway?

Jo 30:57 Your takeaway?

Andy 30:58 Yeah. You said that, and then I went off on a tangent.

Jo 31:00 Oh, right, I thought that was your takeaway, that you, we

Andy 31:02 No!

Jo 31:02 ought to talk more about that?

Andy 31:03 No, no. What am I taking away? I think it's a reminder that there's an awful lot of obstacles to being intimate with your, with your spouse in a marriage. But, actually, it's reminded me of God's best plan. I mean, I know we talked about God's best, but it's reminding me that God has a best plan. And, actually, it's a good idea to try and get there. And, like anything, you can kind of be, kind of nudged away from it without really being fully aware that you're moving away from a good place. So, you know, take stock. Have a think and make sure that things aren't happening, that there's actually a good reason why they're not happening, rather than you've just fallen out of the habit.

Jo 31:37 Yeah, good point.

Andy 31:38 So what was your answer to last week's question that I can't remember.

Jo 31:41 Yeah, last week you asked me what was the best experience that we'd had of sex in our marriage?

Andy 31:45 Just being clear I wasn't after, you know, gratituos details.

Jo 31:48 Intimate details? No! This is a PG, well,

Andy 31:49 Semi PG,

Jo 31:50 Semi PG. And I thought about it. And I thought, and apparently it was my idea to have sex in the garden wasn't it. I mean, obviously in our own garden, in a private place. And so one of the houses that we've had, there was a little we, we checked it out, I actually checked it out. I did a recee of the situation, looked around to see if no neighbours could see us, and people from within the house.

Andy 32:10 Or hear, just to be clear. It was very private!

Jo 32:12 Yeah, absolutely. And I just, I found that kind of exhilarating, exciting.

Andy 32:16 Yeah, yeah.

Jo 32:16 It felt like a little bit naughty. I mean, I wouldn't go out and about in, because it is actually against the law!

Andy 32:21 We're not talking about voyeurism. Let's just be really, really clear here 'cos that's wrong.

Jo 32:25 No, I couldn't do that. But it was kind of a little bit, it felt a little bit naughty, a bit exciting, a bit different. At the time, the children were a bit younger, weren't they, so we could get away with it. I'm not, it would be a bit more difficult as the kids are older.

Andy 32:36 We're actually back in a house with a very private garden. But it'd be more of a challenge!

Jo 32:38 Yeah. So I found that

Andy 32:42 It helped my back that did!

Jo 32:42 quite exciting. Yeah, it was

Andy 32:44 Lttle top tip.

Jo 32:44 Crazy. But I found that quite exciting.

Andy 32:47 We told you this was RealTalk.

Jo 32:48 Yeah. And the other one, I had actually two, actually. You know, when we go to bed early, and we like either watch a film, or we play, play games, play cards, or something.

Andy 32:58 We play a lot of Gin Rummy!

Jo 32:58 And then in between, we might have a, you know, a session. And then I get very excited if we can do it two or three times. It's like, wow, look at look at us, you know, do you don't mean?

Andy 33:08 We're not too old yet!

Jo 33:09 Yeah. And it's almost like, oh, let's do it again, just, just to get, but it's like a long, protracted time. It's a period of time maybe go to bed early 7, 8, 9. And then it's sort of gone midnight isn't it. It's a long, sort of, sort of time period. But it's kind of quite exciting to sort of play a game, have sex, and then carry on and then have another

Andy 33:28 Yeah, yeah.

Jo 33:28 Have another go. So!

Andy 33:30 There you go. I wasn't expecting that either. Don't worry, it's not just you.

Jo 33:33 But, yeah, you asked me, you asked me.

Andy 33:34 Well I did. But we also want to have Real Talk, 'cos the thing is about marriage in general, there's there's so many lies around. There's so much opposition to marriage. There's so many reasons why it can fall apart, and be difficult. And, if we're not honest about our marriage, then we can't help you guys get your marriages better. And that includes a little bit of vulnerability on our part. And I think that's important. So

Jo 33:55 Yeah.

Andy 33:55 There you go.

Jo 33:56 So it's good to talk about sex. But we don't need to be graphic, and things like that.

Andy 34:03 No!

Jo 34:03 And, like we say, in flims,

Andy 34:04 You shouldn't be

Jo 34:05 we don't really want to see it, see it, but it's good to talk about it 'cos it's part of life, isn't it, and it's, it's good,

Andy 34:12 It ain't no big deal. But we make it a big deal. So we're trying to make it not a big deal. And we're trying to make it not a big deal by talking about it for 4 straight episodes. So, having done Part 1, this is Part 2, there's gonna be a Part 3. And I've already said to Jo, there's a Part 4 to this, which will feed, finish off our season of episodes.

Jo 34:28 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 34:28 Because this is such a contentious issue. And it really shouldn't be! This is God's best for humanity, is a husband and a wife, enjoying a relationship together. And we always focus on the best that God would want for us. It's not going to be everyone's experience. We've had some really bad times and difficult times, but some good times. So what is God's best? Don't look at what you need to try and avoid, 'cos you'll fall over your feet. What is God's best? That's what we should be aiming for.

Jo 34:54 Yeah.

Andy 34:55 That's a good place to end, innit?

Jo 34:56 Yeah.

Andy 34:56 So, there you go. Feel free to comment, talk, whatever.

Jo 35:01 Yeah.

Andy 35:01 You can private message us on the website, and all sorts of places. And, yes, thank you for joining us for another episode of Marriage Matters. And next week there'll be more, because I wanted to talk about more about moods and feelings.

Jo 35:11 Brilliant.

Andy 35:11 And all sorts of things. So, come back next week for another session of Marriage Matters. Let's get Physical, Part 3. And then Part 4, the week after that. Was there anything I was supposed to say at the end?

Jo 35:22 No.

Andy 35:22 'Cos my brain's gone now.

Jo 35:23 Just, thanks for watching and see you next time.

Andy 35:25 Thanks for watching and see you next time. Is that it?

Jo 35:27 Bye for now.

Andy 35:28 Bye for now.

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