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In this week’s Marriage Matters, Andy B and Jo do some straight talking about sex in marriage – ‘Let’s get physical’ – focusing on the good stuff and the benefits!

Andy and Jo affirm the importance of sex, discuss some of the pitfalls and share their ups and downs in their own marriage, pun intended!

The bible talks about sex and so Andy and Jo agree that we should and as usual Andy makes sense of it all with scripture verses:

  • Matthew 19:6
  • 1 Corinthians 6:18
  • 1 Corinthians 7:5

You could also check out the celebration of sex in the song of songs!

Tips and Resources

  • Read Song of Songs in the bible. You can do this, for free, at Bible Gateway
  • Read ‘The Message of the Song of Songs’ by Tom Gledhill to help you understand this book on sex in the bible – yes in the bible!
  • Read ‘Sex, Romance and the Glory of God’ by C.J Mahaney and/ or
  • Read ‘Feminine Appeal’ by Carolyn Mahaney
  • Check out The Unveiled Wife website, who Andy referred to.
  • And finally if this was not enough why not check out Hot, Holy & Humorous by J.Parker

The Take Away

Andy and Jo both reiterate the importance of sex and the benefits within a marriage between one man and one woman, noting the difficulties of more than one wife or husband as shown in the bible!

Sex is part of God’s design for marriage, and it is designed to get better and better, so keep practising!

Sex is so good that Andy B and Jo realised they need to do it justice and plan to come back with Part 2 of sex to get physical again!

Andy and Jo

Andy 0:25 And welcome to Marriage Matters, another episode, of the awesomeness of Jo Jo and Andy B.

Jo 0:30 Yes, I'm Jo.

Andy 0:31 And I'm Andy B. Funnily enough, so welcome! We're looking at what?

Jo 0:36 We're looking at, well, sex. We're calling it Let's Get Physical. And this is where we, oh no, you didn't go there.

Andy 0:45 I did!

Jo 0:46 Yeah.

Andy 0:47 Not Olivia Newton John's finest hour I don't think.

Jo 0:48 No, so yeah, we're looking at the physical side, and the intimate side of relationships of marriage. So that is, yeah, we'll sort of share something of our own testimony, see what the Bible says, and stuff like that.

Andy 1:01 I'd forgotten the title. I think I blocked the video out of my mind, and the song. That's why I forgot the title. Yeah, that's what we're looking at today. But, as ever, if you want to keep up to date with all that we're doing across the Berry Bunch, you can do this. You can like us on Facebook. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel. And we're on Tumblr, and we're on Twitter. There's lots of places you can find our stuff. And the best thing you can do, to be honest, is sign up to the Berry Bytes newsletter, which comes out every week and we give you a little roundup of what's gone on. And why is it Berry Bytes with a Y? Because why not?

Jo 1:36 Excellent.

Andy 1:37 It doesn't get any better than this.

Jo 1:38 I feel like we've been building up to this episode, don't worry, we've sort of been beating around the bush, going wide in terms of relationships, date nights.

Andy 1:46 Like digital, verbal foreplay, kind of. We've touched on this a little bit.

Jo 1:50 And so now we're just going for it. Yeah, sex in marriage, and how that works, and what the problems might be, and issues. But yeah, it's it's an interesting subject. It's, sometimes it can be difficult to talk about it. And, but, sadly, it's talked about a lot in the wrong way,

Andy 2:10 Yes.

Jo 2:10 Isn't it? So we want to, hopefully, look at it in the right way.

Andy 2:13 We do. And it's often made out to be this big topic that, I don't know how it was for you growing up. Actually, I'm not quite sure what it was like for you growing up. But, for me, you know, this was a subject you don't talk about this ever. You know, you talk to somebody else. And it was ridiculous, really, because it's part of life. If you are a child, then you came into the world through sex, basically. So why do we have this big thing? And as a family we've always had this rule. It doesn't matter what the topic is, we always have the same thing. If you want to ask about it, ask about it. And we have chats across the dinner table. And if it's not appropriate for the dinner table it probably shouldn't be talked about anyway. So our kids have asked us about sex. Where do we come from? How did it get in there? What's going on with this? So they have natural questions. And if you answer normal questions in a normal way, it's not a big issue!

Jo 2:55 Yeah, I must admit, though, I do laugh every time it's on a film. And then a child asks about the birds and the bees. And I do laugh and think, oh, no, that's embarrassing. But it's funny. But actually, we shouldn't be embarrassed about it because it is very natural, and very much part of life, isn't it?

Andy 3:10 Well, life is here because of sex. Let's be honest.

Jo 3:13 Yeah.

Andy 3:13 Whether you're single married or anything else, you are here because of sex. So it's a topic which gets bandied around. You see it in videos, and music stuff. You see it in films, where it's really inappropriate. You know, we don't need to know that that's going on thanks. You just shut the door and it's perfectly good. In fact, I actually remember we watched a film. What was the film? Australia.

Jo 3:33 Yeah.

Andy 3:34 Which is a really, really excellent film actually. And we showed it to our boys. However, because this is what I do, I actually edited the video and I cut out a little piece of a sex scene between the two main characters. And, you know, quite seamlessly, if I say so, for our own personal use, because our boys don't need to see that. And do you know what? They knew exactly what went on in the film.

Andy 3:52 I did the same thing to Pearl Harbour, which is another good film. And I cout out a sex scene in there. We don't need to see a woman grunting, and sweating, and panting on a screen. We know what's going on. And the boys exactly knew what was going on without having that scene. So it wasn't necessary Hollywood, you don't need to put it in. We get it!

Jo 4:08 Yeah, so I suppose a lot of films will give sex a bad name, won't it? And we'll see it in the wrong way. I remember the episodes of Friends and it was just in and out of each other's beds, and really sort of making it sound great. And, as I say, we're talking about sex in marriage, aren't we. Where God has told us that that's the best, that's the best for us.

Andy 4:26 As ever, we look at it from our own experience. This is what we're talking about. We're not talking about what your experience is. This is our show and our experience, so there! But we talk about it in context of our marriage, you know, me and Jo, and what does, what, what does sex mean in a marriage? What does God say about it? How should it work out, and look, and all that kind of thing. So we'll look at some of those things.

Jo 4:45 Yep.

Andy 4:46 Shall we hvae a break?

Jo 4:46 Yeah.

Andy 4:50 In 2018, Jo and I were full time children's ministers, loving what we were doing and wanting to share our resources freely with others to use. Scroll on to two years, to 2020, and we'd finally launched our website, chocked full of resources.

Andy 5:06 It was a bit embarrassing when we had one video. But we've now got nearly 500 videos for you to use, stream, share and download with 900 posts, all full of information that you are free to use in your situation, whether that's a church, a family, or just for your own personal use.

Andy 5:23 We've been asked to do all sorts of things! We've made logos for somebody who wanted a new logo for their blog, We've been asked to create a Children's Discipleship group. So we've done that. We've been asked to create a book about Broken Dreams, and Hope! and we've done that as well.

Andy 5:37 We love creating resources that are relevant for your situation, so get in touch with what your needs are.

Andy 5:43 Our vision and our passion is to create material that is family safe, For Free, For All, wherever you are in the world and that is exactly what we do. So, if you want to help us continue to do that, or if you want us to make something specific for your situation, then get in touch.

Jo 6:12 So, we're back now, for the main section, the meaty section, we call it don't we?

Andy 6:17 The Meaty Section.

Jo 6:18 Yeah, and so what we'll do now is, is, is obviously share something of our own experience, look at what the Bible tells us and, yeah, see where we go with that. So where do you want to start then Andy?

Andy 6:31 Well, I've got a really, really bad experience.

Jo 6:33 Oh!

Andy 6:34 Which I thought it'd be getting out of the way. So when we were first married, newlyweds, the honeymoon's great, everything is going really wonderfulm we'd managed to buy a house, which was awesome and life was good. Jo was focusing on her work, I was focusing on mine. She was shift work, quite a hard job. And I was working a different kind of shift work, with trucking. And it got quite tense at one point. I think it got to one night when you didn't want to make love to me, so I thought, right, that it, stuff that, you're not getting any affection from me. I wouldn't hold your hand, and I wouldn't kiss you and we have kind of six to eight months of hell, quite honestly, which I initiated sadly. And I just thought, well, if she's not going to do that, I won't do that. And, you know, tit for tat never works anywhere. It definitely doesn't work in the marriage bed. And so it's a it's a sad story, really, of the sort of six to eight months. It's about a year into our marriage. And we just, we barely looked at each other. We didn't see each other really, and it was a really hard time.

Andy 7:31 Now, roll on 25 years, I know that it's quite normal to have a time when that kind of initial, it's really exciting having sex with somebody, that, that kind of goes. That is normal, actually, but at the time, it felt like it was the end of the world, which is why I did what I did. But you were really exhausted. And I didn't really understand that and, you know, kaboom.

Jo 7:51 Yeah.

Andy 7:52 Big explosion, but we eventually got that sorted. But I remember thinking, right, well, you know, that's it. Tough, I won't kiss you. And kissing is a really important part. You know, we kiss our children we kiss. If you're in France, and maybe you kiss on the cheek, it's kind of a greeting thing. So it's quite an intimate thing to do. And, obviously, in the context ofa marriage, kissing is a really important part of it! "You may not kiss the bride", my favourite part of the wedding day.

Jo 8:13 Yeah.

Andy 8:14 Before the food came. Food was very good. Anyway, so yeah, it was, it was a really dark time. But I think that can happen. We talk about RealTalk, you know. This is part of our life. We're sharing that because we want you to be encouraged that, do you know what? You can go through rough times! That was 24 years ago for us, and we've come through that and we're stronger ever since. So, don't worry too much if you're having a really bad spell. However, if intimacy is something that you want, and your wife doesn't want to have sex with you, then tit for tat, 'oh, I wo'nt, I won't do anything for her'. I mean, where's that in the Bible?

Jo 8:44 Yeah, I think what you're, what's sticking out for me is that it's not just physical is it. I know we're talking, it's Let's Get Physical. We're talking about the sex. The actual act of the intercourse but, actually, it's not, it's not on its own. It's doesn't stand alone. There are, that, you know, like you say, kissing is important part. How we feel emotionally, mentally, spiritually it's all part of it, isn't it? You got some scripture, there for, for us?

Andy 9:08 I do. Matthew 19, 6, I think.

Jo 9:13 Yeah, that sounds about right.

Andy 9:15 Ooh, here we go, yep.

Andy 9:16 "So they are no", it's not in context, but hey, go and read the rest of the chapter, chapter 19, verse six, "they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Andy 9:28 And this is really the purpose of, of sex within a marriage. If you go about long enough, then sex is for having babies and, yes, that can be a part of it. But there's some really good stuff we'll come on to as to why that is not the case. Because if you say, well, sex is for babies, then if you are married, and for some reason you're not able to have children it doesn't make your marriage less.

Jo 9:47 Yeah, 'cos I remember we were talking about this. We were talking about Abraham and Sarah. And they were like, they didn't have a child till they were about 120?

Andy 9:55 They were old. They were passed the bus pass age.

Jo 9:58 And so well, we're pretty sure that they were carrying on having sex, because obviously they did have a child in the end.

Andy 10:04 I mean, the age doesn't matter. They were old!

Jo 10:06 But they kept going.

Andy 10:06 She was barren. She was you know, she was no longer having a period therefore she could not have children. So we're talking about, today's day, she's in her 60s in her 70s, at least! And they're still at it. it's great!

Jo 10:07 Still being intimate, yeah.

Andy 10:12 But here's the thing about sex that gets better. If you think. We've talked about, kind of one night stands. We've looked at the kind of hookup culture and why that isn't very beneficial. But the thing about it is, I've had 25 years of practice with Jo, and she's 25 years of practice with me. If you practice something for 25 years, and sex is part of this, it gets better! I'll try not to smile too much. But 25 years of sex practice. It's good, with the same person. So I know how Jo works. She knows how I work. And it gets better because if you practice something, it gets better. But a one night stand? I'm sorry, but you're never going to have as good a sexual relationship with one night stands as you can in a marriage. It is simply not possible!

Jo 10:55 Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, you know, God created sex. God gave us this benefit, if you like,

Andy 11:03 Yeah, yeah.

Jo 11:03 This good thing and it is good. When God created the universe, everything was good. He said, It is good. Now, obviously, we're living in the time after the fall. And so every marriage is tainted, isn't it?

Andy 11:14 Yep.

Jo 11:14 There is no marriage that has got it right. And there are going to be issues in and around sex as well. We know that the Bible is clear that we should have, what, a man and a woman together, and one man and one woman. Although we see in the Bible, there are various partners, but that

Andy 11:30 I always chuckle when it's talking about the church leaders, you know, it's a man of but one wife. You know, I wouldn't want two wives!

Jo 11:37 No, it's just too hard, isn't it? Yeah. So, yeah, there's, that's what the Bible tells us. But, you know, it's just great. God wants us to enjoy ourselves, wants us to have something good. But I think sometimes we just focus on the negative, don't we of all the negative things around sex and, you know, unwanted pregnancies, or diseases, or all this sort of in and out of each other's bed, or divorce or, you know, all this kind of stuff, the problems. And there are problems. But we wanted to focus on what what was God's intention, and what does He want for us?

Andy 12:09 We're not really focusing on the bad stuff. We're looking at what's God's best?

Jo 12:12 Yeah.

Andy 12:12 That's always the thing with Marriage Matters.

Jo 12:13 And so, you know, if I think about it, sex is enjoyable, is a stress reliever, it really. What was one of the things you learned is the science that you keep telling me all about.

Andy 12:24 You can thank J Parker, at Hot, Holy and Humorous.

Jo 12:27 What was that again? The science behind it?

Andy 12:29 So here's the thing about sex. If you're having sex, properly, as in, husband, wife, sperm and all that, there's some really good nutrients and chemicals in, in the man's sperm. So, actually, it helps the woman's brain.

Jo 12:40 Ah, you see!

Andy 12:41 So you can thank J Parker. We've got this in the Top Tips later. But, yeah, it's some really good nutrients, chemicals, and it's absorbed in the vagina, and it goes into the brain. And it's really good.

Jo 12:49 Yeah, as I say, God is a good God. God is good. He wants good things for His children. And sex is good, isn't it?

Andy 12:56 But here's the thing.

Jo 12:57 What?

Andy 12:57 God doesn't just want it for kids. Do you know why? I love this. This is a bit of science. It's not icky. But the woman's clitoris, alright, it grows over time.

Jo 13:04 Yeah.

Andy 13:04 Men's ears get bigger and useless. But a woman's clitoris gets bigger over time.

Jo 13:09 Yeah.

Andy 13:09 And s more able to have orgasm.

Jo 13:11 Oh, interesting.

Andy 13:12 So, actually, as you get older, it's actually easier and better. You see God's got a plan!

Jo 13:16 Oh, actually. What have you got next, scripture wise?

Andy 13:20 6, 18. 1 Corinthians 6, 18, we're taking a little bit of a left hand turn, but we'll come back again in a minute.

Andy 13:27 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually, sins against his own body."

Jo 13:36 Wow!

Andy 13:37 Again, it's out of contex, go and read the rest of one Corinthians six, I'm not reading the rest for you. But this is a thing, "Flee from sexual immorality". You can have sexual immorality in a marriage because you can have a rape in a marriage, you can have lust, which is bad. Don't ever think that lusting is good, it's not. Actually it's about a peaceful relationship. Sex in a marriage, it's a, it's a weapon of spiritual warfare, we've learned that. It's also an act of worship to God. It's all in the Bible. If you want to go and find it. I'm not going to reference it for you. But Song of Songs is a whole book about sex. It talks about oral sex, and why that's so good. It talks about how intimacy should be like two people who are just, you know, at each other and can't get each other's clothes off fast enough. The Song of Songs really is a beautiful example of what sex in a marriage is supposed to look like. It's not supposed to be boring. That's Hollywood that is. Our sex life gets better every year. We've been married 25 years. I can say, quite happily, it's got better, and it's improved. Because we've practised. Because we're less stressed about it. We're less anxious about our bodies, and all the rest of it. Well, that takes time, and it takes practice.

Jo 14:40 Yeah, I was thinking about the scripture that talks about don't give up having sex unless you're

Andy 14:46 1 Corinthians 7 verse 5. 've got it next.

Jo 14:48 Unless you're gonna pray. And I was gonna, I'll sort of share something of my own story about about.

Andy 14:52 Shall I read the scripture first? So this is 1 Corinthians 7, 5.

Andy 14:55 "Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent, and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you, because of your lack of self control."

Andy 15:07 And just before Jo gives you a bit of a more recent story, I just wanted to really briefly touch on this because I like the fact that it says, 'Don't do don't stop having sex for too long, because you'll be tempted.' Why? Because sex is such an important union between a husband and a wife. It's often said that the devil will do whatever he can do to get you to have sex before marriage, and to stop you having sex after marriage. And I think that's absolutely true, and absolutely right. It's not good, but I think it's absolutely right. But here's the thing, it shouldn't be tempted. But this scripture "Do not deprive each other" is not a baseball bat for 'we have to have sex because God said'. If you're going to say that you're foolish and you're stupid, and I'd like to have a little bit of a chat with you to be honest! But it's not about having sex. This is a way. 1 Corinthians 7, 5 says we've got to have sex. No, no, no, "Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement". It's not about we have to have sex. It's if you choose to not have sex, it has to be by agreement and it has to be for the purpose of prayer, and for a really short time now really short is going to be different in your situation. And we'll come a bit onto frequency later. But yeah.

Jo 16:10 Yeah, I mean, we've talked about date night, didn't we, and how you, the whole idea of Marriage Matters is that you need to work at your marriage. We need to work at spending time together, dates and things, but the same with sex, isn't it. You need to sort of, I know it's spontaneous is kind of exciting and stuff. But then you do need to plan times, especially if you have children, especially if you've got work and things that are around. Yes, I noticed you were nicking my tea! But we were sort of recently, weren't we, thinking, come on we need to make sure we have sex more often. Because it, we know how beneficial it is, cos you can get out of, you know, you can get tired, you have late nights, and you sort of think, oh yeah, we'll do it one day or.

Andy 16:45 It becomes a lower priority.

Jo 16:46 get round to it. Yeah, and the same as priorities in time together. This, this is important. So w,e we, with mutual agreement, decided that we were going to try and make sure we did it more often because we knew that it was important. And in that time, I had to make a decision. It was just buying something, more recently. And I just noticed there was a difference in my ability to make that decision from a distance from Andy. And there was this confidence in, in what I was doing. And I just, I just, it's sort of hard to explain, but I did notice the difference. This confidence in myself. My confidence in, in making decisions, and confidence in us working together on things. It does, it does change things.

Jo 17:31 We, what I find fascinating is that we're quick to understand, and realise, the negatives of sex. We bang on about, oh, pornography. Or we bang on, oh, lust or rape and all that kind of stuff. And it's like bombarded in the media. But I think we need to spend more time thinking what are the benefits? What, how does it really work? And, you know, I think that that's what happens, isn't it. You become more confident.

Andy 17:53 Well, Philippians. Focus on whatever's good and pure and right.

Jo 17:55 Yeah, and I think you value. You know there's a lot of problems in this life about self worth, and value. And, if I'm honest, when we were having sex, well it's not when but, you know, just during that particular time when we made that effort, I felt I valued myself more. I felt ,I felt better about myself.

Andy 18:14 Yes. And I found myself not having to struggle quite so much. I don't struggle with looking at other women. It's not, it's not a particular problem. Pornography is not some't I've ever really wrestled or struggled with. I know, for some guys, that can be the case, and some women. It's not a particular one for me. But, actually, when we're in a in a good rhythm of regularly making love, is that right way of describing it?

Jo 18:33 Yeah.

Andy 18:33 Actually, everything's easier for me, I don't, you know, if somebody walks along and they've got a short skirt or a tight top and. Whereas I might have to actively look away, now it's just not an issue. And I think that's why this is a good weapon of warfare.

Andy 18:47 You're gonna have bad times. You're gonna have health issues. Babies are going to come along. We had something, having decided, right, we're gonna try and make love more. All of a sudden, I had a bit of a health issue which prevented that for a week or so. And, you know, you make these goals, but don't give up when stuff goes wrong. In life, stuff goes wrong. So you pick yourself up and you go again. But I think one of the things that I would warn you about as strongly as I can, is be really careful what you're watching on TV. We threw away a film that we used to happily watch. And I said to Jo, I can't watch this film anymore. Actually I felt a bit sick watching it, because it's too real. Now, it was only I think a 12 or 15. It wasn't graphic. It wasn't gratuitous. But there was something very realistic about the relationship that I thought I don't want to watch this. Because, actually, it's very suggestive. Iit was very alluring, and I don't want to have that thought in my mind.

Andy 19:34 And I remember what reading years ago, from UCB daily notes, 'you can't unsee what you see'. And as obvious as that sounds, you can't unsee what you see. You can choose to not see certain things. We've always said with our boys when they've walked down the road, and there's a woman that's really inappropriately dressed, look, you can't be held responsible for what you see the first time. But it's that second look. And in the same context, we need to be careful where we're looking, what we're thinking.

Jo 20:00 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 20:02 So this is why we're looking at sex in marriage, because there's an awful lot of rubbish out there! And, actually, God's intention is for a husband and wife to be married. To have a regular, frequent, we'll come on to that, ongoing sexual relationship with each other. And if you want to know what's going on, and what's right and what's wrong, well, go and read Song of Songs. And if you don't understand the wording of Song of Songs, why is Jo's neck a beautiful thing? 'Cos it's like a, you know, a pillar of ivory.

Jo 20:29 Gazelles. Some't about gazeells.

Andy 20:31 I dunno. There's a book, which I'll get, which I have, in the tip section, which talks about what the heck is the Song the Songs talking about? Doesn't quite say that. But the thing about sex is, it's a normal part of life. And if we don't treat it as a normal part of life, it becomes this weird, odd thing that we don't want to talk about. And if you don't talk about it, it becomes a problem. It's the pea under the mattress, isn't it? Shall we take a break?

Jo 20:56 Yep!

Steven 21:02 So Endurance, wait, no, first. I'm Steven.

Nathan 21:06 I'm Nathan.

Steven 21:07 And we're brothers actually.

Nathan 21:09 Yea, in case you hadn't noticed.

Steven 21:10 Yeah.

Nathan 21:11 I know the much more masculine physique on this side may have thrown you off.

Steven 21:17 Yeah, I'm actually older.

Nathan 21:19 Yeah.

Steven 21:20 Taller, streonger, fitter.

Nathan 21:23 Maybe.

Steven 21:24 No, definitely.

Nathan 21:26 Anyway, that's not the point of Endurance.

Steven 21:28 No it isn't.

Nathan 21:28 It's spiritual training, not physical.

Steven 21:30 Yep, yep.

Nathan 21:30 Not that we, obviously, we don't compete that much.

Steven 21:33 Nor spiritually. You shouldn't compete spiritually either.

Nathan 21:36 No!. But I am better than you.

Steven 21:37 I dunno know what to say to that.

Nathan 21:42 There is no no answer.

Steven 21:44 So, the point of Endurance is all about 1 Timothy

Nathan 21:46 Taking the mickey out of make each other.

Steven 21:48 All about 1 Timothy 4 verse 8 which says, physical training is good, but training for godliness is much better. And so it was and idea which, I think it was my idea, actually wasn't it?

Nathan 22:00 It was a joint effort. There's no I in team.

Steven 22:03 Yes, so it was definitely my idea.

Nathan 22:05 Yeah.

Steven 22:05 And the idea being that we have to, well, I was challenged, 'cos basically, I enjoy exercise. I was doing lots of weight training, lots of running, and I was getting a bit obsessive

Nathan 22:15 You were failing to train spiritually.

Steven 22:18 Yeah, yeah, you could say that I was idolising physical fitness.

Nathan 22:21 So, we created Endurance to help him learn better how to balance spiritual and physical training.

Steven 22:28 Yeah, basically.

Nathan 22:32 'Cos I've already cracked it.

Steven 22:33 No, no!

Nathan 22:36 No?

Steven 22:36 You've got a long way to go yet. So go check us out.

Nathan 22:41 I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, you're way behind.

Steven 22:45 Cut!

Andy 22:59 Tips and resources, Tips and Resources, I will make a logo one day, honest.

Andy 23:06 So this is where we look at some Tips and Resources that we have for you. I have a lot of books. The first book, which shouldn't be a surprise. It's called the Bible. And do you know what? There's a whole book in here written about sex. Now, some people say that Song of Songs, it's about a spiritual relationship between us and God. And maybe, to some extent, you could argue that. But, actually, it's more realistically looked at the Song of Songs, as a relationship between husband and wife and it's all about sex, to be quite frank. Now, if you want to understand more about that there's this book, "The Message of the Song of Songs", by Tom Gledhill.

Andy 23:39 Now it looks a bit like a study book. And it is a little bit like a study book, 'cos it's a study book. However, I really enjoyed reading it. Because when you think about why is there white things in the mouth, and each one's got its pair? What's that about? Well, actually, that's about the fact she's got a full set of teeth, which was kind of rare and rather attractive. So it opens up some of those things like the gazelle. I mean, what? Why are the breasts like, bouncing, or what, ut explains it okay.

Jo 24:05 Can I just ask is, am I right in thinking that in the Jewish, originally, they wouldn't, you couldn't read that book until you're 12?

Andy 24:12 Yes, it was a.

Jo 24:13 So it just goes to show it must be about sex, mus'nt it?

Andy 24:16 Yes. Here's the other thing on that one. So when the, when the Jewish couple got married, their friends would come to the brides to be, well the bride's house, they get the married bit. And then they come back to the house that the man would tend to have built. They would then have sex, with their friends outside cheering them on. In't that awesome!

Jo 24:31 Yeah.

Andy 24:32 Isn't that just a bit different from how we do it today? Ooh, you know, close the door. And, you know, we're not saying you should see stuff, but it's a celebration of something amazing and good.

Jo 24:41 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 24:42 Okay, some more books. This is by a husband and wife couple. See Caroline Mahaney and C J Mahaney. It's really, really good these two books. They don't go together, but they kind of do c'os she writes in the back of his book. But there's a great quote from Carolyn Mahaney, which kind of went a bit viral and it sort of helped her to be a speaker on this. But someone asked requesting one day about, you know, I'm really tired to have sex with my husband, and you know, I've got to make dinner. And she said, just make him a jam sandwich, and then go and have sex. That's the English version. Because he'll care more for the fact you actually want to be intimate with Him, and initiate having sex.

Andy 25:19 So, another one that goes with that is "Sex, Romance and the glory of God", which is C J Mahaney. This is really, really good. A simple little book, really excellent. I found some really great ideas and perspectives on marriage.

Andy 25:30 And the other one, we thank J Parker for stuff. It's not, we're not paid to say this, but the stuff on the clitoris getting bigger and, and the fact there's loads of chemicals in the sperm, which is really good for a wife's brain, that's all out of this, which is really, really good.

Jo 25:45 Hot, Holy and Humorous?

Andy 25:46 Hot, Holy and Humorous by J Parker, who's a really fantastic, honest, blogger.

Jo 25:50 Yeah.

Andy 25:51 From the States. We love it. It's great. Yeah,

Jo 25:53 That's some good stuff there about sex, from the biblical perspective in marriage, different sort of takes. And I'm sure there'll be be able to pick some tips and stuff up from those.

Andy 26:03 The Bible? Fruit of the Spirit? There you go. That's absolutely perfectly applicable to your marriage. That first, not so good story we talked about. I didn't exhibit any fruit of the Spirit. That was bad. But actually, when Jo was talking about how we'd made love, and then she had to make a decision. I mean, she makes loads of decisions every day, really seriously, important, ones. But, all of a sudden, it's that extra boost of confidence that she said she had. And that came off the back of us making love as an act of worship, because we prayed.

Jo 26:28 Yeah,

Andy 26:28 while we were making love. I mean that's, you know, you can't get any more intimate than prayer with God.

Jo 26:32 I think you made a good point that you can, you know, it's just because you're married doesn't mean that you've got it right. And there things are. And we can use sex for the wrong things, can't we? To get what we want, or withhold, and stuff like that. So it's good for us to examine our motives and think about what we're doing ,and be prayerful about this, like everything in life. Because we can fall foul of different ways of being. Maybe we've picked stuff up 'cos, you know, we've we've watched things, we've done things, we've experienced things, and we've seen parents do things. So, I think one of my tips would be, you know, just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. And you've talked this through with each other and with God.

Andy 27:10 Having a ring. Being a husband and wife doesn't make it all right! And it's really sad when a couple get married and then think, 'Great. We've not had sex before marriage. And now we're, we've waited, we've got married and it's not working'.

Andy 27:21 There's another blog, which has escaped my mind. But they had a real problem because she had extreme pain when they were first having intercourse. And, well, that's not right.

Jo 27:30 Yeah.

Andy 27:30 And it was a real struggle, and is part of her story and testampny. It's amazing. I'll link it in the section because I forgotten the name of it. But, you know, she had really painful sex and 'well we've waited all this time to have sex and now it hurts but it's supposed to be right and good and pure.' And it just doesn't work that way in life, sometimes, sadly. And her testimony is dealing with that. And then the relationship there were struggles with pornography, for her particularly. And then they, they sort the pain out, and they sought the marriage out. And, you know, it's, it's never too late. It really isn't!

Jo 27:57 You can talk to God about anything, even sex!

Andy 28:01 You can! When you first became a Christian used to cover yourself up because you didn't want God to see you naked. And, when I met you a few years after you'd come to faith, and you said that, I said, 'Okay!'.

Jo 28:11 Sweet wa'nt it!

Andy 28:12 It was very sweet. It was a lovely innocence of God. Oh, it was great. So we'll be back after these little messages.

Andy 28:20 I was asked to record a video and write a book by a friend. He had seen so many people with broken dreams, just hopeless about the life they were living and the life before them. So I wrote a book. It's my very first book. It's called Broken Dreams, and Hope!

Andy 28:37 It's based on my own life, some struggles that I've had. And the fact that through those struggles, however bad they were, whether they were caused by me, or caused against me, throughout all of that, there was still hope.

Andy 28:51 Let me just read a few things that people who've read this book already have said:

Andy 28:54 "It's a page turner, with each chapter leaving you wanting to read just one more. You gave the reader motivation to look up and grab the hand that can lift you up on your feet, and walk you through life's muddy mire."

Andy 29:09 And "I love the way you spoke of hurt, and abuse, but never going into details that would have robbed the reader of their own inward pains and ability to take hold of the Lord's extended hand. The hand that will never let go."

Andy 29:22 Broken Dreams, and Hope! is a book I wrote because I know what it is to have broken dreams.

Andy 29:27 I know what it is to feel hopeless.

Andy 29:30 But I also know what it is to have hope, because that hope has a name, and that name is Jesus Christ.

Andy 29:52 And we're back for The Take Away. I'm hungry.

Jo 29:58 Yeah, I am.

Andy 29:58 We talked about the takeaway and it's delightful. So, I'm hungry. So I mentioned in the first part about Carolyn Mahaney was asked about sex and stuff. And I think the question was, how often do you have sex with your husband? And she said, as often as I can. And there was his kind of ripple of laughter at this not quite so young wife saying something like that. And I think it's really sad that, you know, 'men want sex, women don't'. Absolute lies, not true. 'Men need to have sex women don't'. Absolute rubbish. 'Only men struggle with pornography', absolute rubbish. I mentioned before about another marriage, a couple who do stuff and they, she, struggled with pornography quite, quite badly. So, you know, get away from stereotypes Men and women want to have sex. It's not a need as such, I guess because, in God's eyes, being married, or being single, is just as good. There's, one isn't better than the other!

Andy 30:51 Marriage is so much more than just about sex. It's not just about having children. Because otherwise, if you can't have children, you're saying that it's not a marriage? Well, that's not right! So, we've gotta be careful with some of these stereotypes, and these judgments of, well, X equals Y equals Zed, and two plus two equals four, and we get ourselves in a bit of a muddle.

Jo 31:10 Yeah. And I think we've said in previous episodes about how we bring our own baggage to a relationship, don't we? And, so, we're all bringing our own baggage. Whether we, I mean, you know, what you bring in from families. I mean, I work with people who have gone through difficult experiences, and they've seen their mothers and fathers behave in a particular way. And it does affect you as a child. And so you might not even realise an attitude, or a way you think about sex, that has come through the family, has come through something you've seen, 'cos we're always being bombarded by messages, aren't we? And we should, as Christians, what's that one about continually renewing your mind? And so and you know, you know, David cried out, 'Please, Lord, search my heart. Is there anything in here that that ought not to be.' And we should be doing that purifying, be in a state, remain, keep the marriage bed pure as well. Just be pure, and clean and stuff. 'Cos we're all we're out there in the world. And we are seeing things, and we have seen things. So we need to keep it clean, don't we?

Andy 32:06 Yeah, renewing your mind. So my awkward question for this one. So what's your favourite memory? Keeping this semi PG rated? What's your favourite memory of lovemaking with me over 25 years?

Jo 32:21 That's really odd. I don't, I don't know! 'Cos it's always the build up, isn't it? And sometimes it's more of the build up isn't it, and stuff isn't it? You know, kind of, you know, you've you've taken to little notes .

Andy 32:35 Oh, little notes around the house.

Jo 32:38 Little notes. And just make me feel good about myself, and therefore interested. You know, sort of puts me in the mood if you like.

Andy 32:45 So, my effort.

Jo 32:46 Your effort. A bit like the song or songs how, how there's a lot of effort beforehand isn't there.

Andy 32:50 No, its good.

Jo 32:50 Wooing is it called, you know?

Andy 32:53 Wooing. Ooh, wooing is a good word. I haven't heard that one for a while.

Jo 32:57 Yeah, I think, I think we want

Andy 32:58 Wooing one another. Sounds like a pigeon.

Jo 33:00 Yeah. But, yeah. I'd have to think of some more. 'Cos, yeah, I've been thinking about this. I think we need a part two to this.

Andy 33:06 We have to have a part 2.

Jo 33:07 So I'll think a bit more about that and, hopefully, I'll have something for next time

Andy 33:09 There you go. Worst memory, I would say is that six, seven month period where we just didn't talk to each other, see each other, look at each other. That was really rough. And that was not all my fault, takes two, both ways. Bu,t yeah, that was, that was my darkest time, I think, because he went from the honeymoon where you can't have sex enough, to working and finding life, and meeting your old friends and your old family and it's a bit, 'Yeah, we're having sex now'. That's kind of a bit weird. And then you kind of hitting the year, two year, period, and then it's all of a sudden, work is kind of taking over and you weren't interested in one time and I got really off about it.

Jo 33:44 I think I remember a couple of times, which had been unexpected times, unusual times. You know, you can do the whole setup. You have the candles, you have a glass of wine, you have a nice meal. And it's like, well yeah, that was all right. And then other times, you don't really make an effort and it it seems to be good!

Andy 33:58 So the one that you can think about is you can go for junk food. It's like if you're going for your McDonald's, or your Burger King or your KFC, or your pizza. Yeah, that's fine. It'll fill you up. It's a bit like a salad. This is fine. It does this job.

Andy 34:09 Or, then, there's the kind of you take her out for a meal, you dress up. You know, you're going out for wining and dining, and you go to a posh restaurant. It's a five course meal. you know, that's good.

Jo 34:18 So, different ways of looking at having sex. You can have, sort of, the quickie, or the longee.

Andy 34:23 The quickee or the longee.

Jo 34:25 The quickie or the longee or the middlee.

Andy 34:26 Middlee? I don't remember the second one.

Jo 34:31 You Know, I don't know know.

Andy 34:31 There you go. So that's Marriage Matters for you. I hope you've enjoyed this episode as we took us from the sex part of a relationship, but, you can't not!

Jo 34:39 No. And I think we've gotta do part two haven't we!

Andy 34:42 We'll do a part two which, may be a part three at this rate?

Jo 34:44 Yeah.

Andy 34:44 We've got so much more we wanted to say and share and stuff. So, yes, thank you for joining us, as we talked about, what was the title? You see the title just

Jo 34:51 Let's get physical, don't do it! Don't, don't, don't sing it.

Andy 34:55 I'm not singing in my head. I am! There you go. Marriage Matters. Let's get physical. Yeah, let us know what you think. We're quite happy to have comments. There's loads of ways you can get in touch. Don't complain you can't! And we'll be back next week for more.

Jo 35:07 Yes.

Andy 35:07 Bye for now.

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