You can Listen, Read, or Watch, the video. In this week’s Marriage Matters, Andy B and Jo talk about arguments, disagreements, quarrels, and fights between married couples.

As always, Andy B steers the episode with scripture and explores the following:

  • James 4:1-3
  • Genesis 3:16
  • Ephesians 5:22-33
  • Colossians 3:14

Andy B and Jo acknowledge that disagreements are natural and that arguments happen in marriage and look at why and what can be done, sharing as usual their own experiences. Jo adds that we often forget what we were even arguing about as arguments get out of hand and notes the damage that can be done to each other as we say things that hurt.

Andy B and Jo look at ways to disagree in a healthy way, without sinning, without causing strife and disharmony.

Let’s create a harmonious home, by learning together how to ‘Keep the Peace’!

Resources and Tips

The Take Away

Arguments and quarrels are part of life, but never a justification to hurt others – Colossians 3:14 is the antidote!

Andy and Jo



Jo 0:39 Hello, and welcome to Marriage Matters. My name's Jo.

Andy 0:43 And I'm Andy.

Jo 0:44 And we're glad you could join us for all things that matter about marriage.

Andy 0:49 Because Marriage Matters.

Jo 0:50 Yeah, absolutely.

Andy 0:51 And we're doing things that matter about marriage 'cos Marriage Matters.

Jo 0:56 Yep, that's the plan. And if you'd like to stay in touch with what we do like us on Facebook, subscribe to our YouTube channel. And you can sign up to the newsletter on our website, so you won't miss anything, particularly on Marriage Matters.

Andy 1:09 Indeed.

Jo 1:10 Asolutely. So obviously, the idea of Marriage Matters is to talk about our own experiences, and go on a journey and learn something together. So what are we doing this week?

Andy 1:18 Things that matter about marriage.

Jo 1:21 Anything in particular?

Andy 1:22 Yes, matters of the marriage. So this week, we're gonna be looking at arguing. And disagreements.

Jo 1:30 Yes.

Andy 1:31 Miscommunications.

Jo 1:32 Yes.

Andy 1:32 Quarrels. All that stuff that, sadly, does probably happen if we're honest.

Jo 1:38 Yeah.

Andy 1:39 But it's a part of life. What does the Bible tell us? And as ever, we're coming from our own perspective of, now, 25 years married? What have we learned? What mistakes have we made? Have we ever had an argument? We'll tell you if we've ever had an argument! And that's what we want to look at today.

Jo 1:56 Yeah.

Andy 1:56 And I had a scripture.

Jo 1:57 Ah!

Andy 1:58 Which isn't necessarily, immediately, about marriage, however, it is about Christians. And since we're talking about Christian marriages, which is our perspective, and our experience, this fits.

Andy 2:09 So, let's go to James Chapter 1. No, change, Chapter 4.

Jo 2:15 Yeah.

Andy 2:16 You see? No arguing there. It's good! James 4, verse 1.

Andy 2:20 "What causes fights, fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you"

Andy 2:28 Onwards to verse 2.

Andy 2:29 "You want something but you don't get it? You kill and you cover it, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight? You do not have because you do not ask God. When you ask you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."

Andy 2:48 Gentle James.

Jo 2:49 Yes.

Jo 2:51 Direct to the point.

Andy 2:52 And we're gonna get controversially later?

Jo 2:53 Yeah. I mean, I think, bottom line is, we are going to argue. We are going to disagree. But James has got a good point there that, actually, when arguments become unhealthy, then we're sort of fighting. It's a bad thing, isn't it!

Andy 3:07 There is nothing wrong with having passion in the relationship. There is nothing wrong with having disagreements in a relationship.

Jo 3:13 Yeah.

Andy 3:13 Because if we thought the same on everything, it'd be really boring. When that passion gets mixed up in disagreements, you end up with some quarrelling. And that can become inappropriate.

Jo 3:23 Yeah.

Andy 3:24 And no matter what we may think, or want to do, there is never a justification for sin or for getting stuff wrong.

Jo 3:30 Yeah, and we've talked about the importance of being one. And so if you're arguing, and hurting the other person, you're kind of hurting yourself, aren't you?

Andy 3:38 Yes.

Jo 3:38 Shooting yourself in the foot sort of thing and so.

Andy 3:40 Shouting yourself in the ear, or some such?

Jo 3:44 Yeah, so yeah, arguments can get very, quite nasty really and say things that we, we regret. And that silly saying that says words will won't hurt is not true is it!

Andy 3:55 Sticks and stones may break my bones. but words will never hurt me is just twoddle!

Jo 4:00 it's not true is it. And, and, and hurt words can really, really affect people's lives. Especially when you live in a close relationship.

Andy 4:08 Verbal abuse is a real thing.

Jo 4:09 Yeah.

Andy 4:09 Very much!

Jo 4:10 And it can really affect your, you mentally, emotionally. Absolutely. So we've gotta be careful.

Andy 4:15 And we're gonna touch on Ephesians. Husbands and wives and submission and authority and what does the Bible say? What do we think on that?

Jo 4:21 Some meaty stuff there.

Andy 4:23 See, controversial, but it shouldn't be?

Jo 4:24 No.

Andy 4:25 It's in the Bible. Hey, we'll come on to that so you can look forward to that fun later. Take a little break?

Jo 4:29 Yep.

Andy 4:34 We love making resources for you. Resources to inspire and encourage you. Resources you can stream, share and download in your church, your family or home whatever your situation. But, perhaps, there's a Dave the Dog story you'd love us to cover for your work with children, or an All Age service. We've been asked to do videos on teaching.

Andy 4:57 So we've covered topics like Reverence, Prayer and Faith, Broken Dreams, and Hope! Any money we make from commissions like these go straight back into the BerryBunch to keep everything else that we do free, for everyone that needs it.

Andy 5:11 So get in touch. Let us know what your needs are, and we'll see what we can do

Andy 5:30 Welcome back to the meaty bit. What's the name for this section? I always forget.

Jo 5:35 I thought that was it wasn't it?

Andy 5:36 The meaty bit. I'm sure there's a better name that we could use.

Jo 5:39 Probably.

Andy 5:41 The meaty bit. Anyway, so we're looking at quarrels, bad communication, arguments. What does the Bible say? What happens? What's okay? What's not?

Jo 5:49 Yeah.

Andy 5:50 And we're gonna touch on Ephesians 5, 22.

Andy 5:53 Yep, husband's and wives, all that stuff anyway. So let's just recap. So James, chapter 4verse 1 starts with this,

Andy 6:00 "What causes fights and quarrels among? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?"

Andy 6:04 Now this is talking to the church, not necessarily specifically to Christian married couples. But since Christian married couples are part of the church, it still talks to you! But, as ever, if we want to understand what's really going on behind all this, which is quite important, why do we argue? What causes those fights and quarrels? Well, within a marriage the answer comes from Genesis chapter 3. There's this little piece of scripture, verse 16, of chapter 3. So this is Eve's just eaten the apple, she's given it to Adam, they've eaten the apple. And then God's come along, and they've said, what's going on? We're naked. They didn't, He knew that they shouldn't know that they were naked, 'cos there was no sin. And then we've got this little piece here, verse 16,

Andy 6:47 "To the woman he said, I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing. With pain, you will give birth to your children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Andy 6:57 And I read that and thought, okay, so how do I explain that one? Because that kind of within the context of a marriage says something. But if I go into my trusty ESV Study Bible it's got some really helpful notes, which I wanted to read out, and this is on verse 16.

Andy 7:12 "God originally intended that there would be a complementary relationship between husband and wife, with the husband in a leadership role. But that plan has now been distorted and damaged by sin. This takes the form of desire on the part of the wife, and heavy handed rule on the part of the husband. The Hebrew term here for desire appears again in 4, 7 where the Lord says to Cain, that sin's desire is for you. Eve will have the sinful desire to oppose Adam, and to assert leadership over him. Adam will also abandon his god given role of leading, guarding and caring for Eve. Instead, he will have a sinful, distorted desire to rule over her. Thus, one of the most tragic results of Adam and Eve's rebellion against God is ongoing conflict between husbands and wives, as they both rebel against their God given roles and responsibilities in marriage."

Andy 7:59 And then, we're going to jump to 5, 22 with a bit of a pause in between. Because that may well have happened. The Fall happens. Eve may well have eaten that, we say the apple, I meant the fruit of the tree of knowledge. See, this is how ingrained that little lie is isn't it. it's not an apple, it's a fruit!

Andy 8:20 But even if that's gonna be the result of the fall of sin entering the world, it's still not okay to be horrible to one another. There is never a justification for sin, ever! We can kind of justify it.

Andy 8:35 Dietrich Bonhoeffer in the Second World War really struggled with certain parts of faith against Nazism. How how do you come under the authority of people that are so maliciously trying to kill people who are innocent? And Dietrich Bonhoeffer, very much, was working through that. And how do you oppose? How do you stand? And he, I think in the end was very wise in how he dealt with that. But, and it's an impossible situation. What's the right and the wrong? Well, it's still never okay to sin.

Andy 9:04 Corrie Ten Boom. Same kind of situation. World War Two. The Hiding Place, which is the book that Corrie Ten Boom, wrote, one of our sisters always told the truth, because the lie is a sin. When the Germans would come, 'where are the people hiding?' 'They're over there'. And Corrie Ten Boom, we thinking, why did you do that? It's an impossible situation. So we're not talking about that so much. But there are difficult situations. However, it is never okay to sin.

Andy 9:30 But if we understand why we have this desire to argue and fight, it can help us.

Jo 9:35 Yeah.

Andy 9:35 It doesn't make it okay. And there's no point in going, you know, focusing too much on why do we argue, but there is a point of understanding where do these arguments come from? And that's what James 4 verse 1 is saying. What causes these quarrels and arguments? And then he goes on to say a bit more does our James.

Andy 9:51 "You want something but you don't get it?"

Andy 9:56 That's probably every marital strife ever, isn't it?

Jo 10:00 Well I was thinking about it, because it's what causes these quarrels? If you have a quarrel, you speak to anyone in a marriage or in a relationship, they often don't remember what on earth they were arguing about. They're like, to be honest, it just all blew out and I can't tell you what it was about. Often quite trivial.

Andy 10:16 We've had those.

Jo 10:17 And in, so, there's something more going on. It's not really about what you're arguing about. There's something about the relationship. There's some of that tension, isn't it, that, that needs to be reconciled? And there is a difference between men and women and the gender roles, and the different sort of situations? I know the environment, the impact, you know, if finances can be a big issue. I mean, if people do say, right, what were you arguing about finances can be a big argument.

Andy 10:40 Money. Sex Children?

Jo 10:42 Yeah.

Andy 10:43 In Laws

Jo 10:43 In Laws.

Jo 10:43 Yeah. We said that at the same time. What holidays you might have, you know, we all have different expectations, and different desires and things. So it's difficult. Two people, we were talking about that, weren't we, in some of our previous episodes, about joining together, two very different people, living very different lives, coming together and having to work stuff out. So you've got all of that in the mix. But yeah, sometimes it's quite funny how you don't even remember how an argument got started? And maybe it's not really about that. It's about you know, again, we're, we're fighting for our desires, isnt it.

Jo 10:47 How often is it about wanting some respect? How often is it about wanting to be heard? I think of some of our arguments, which I shamefully remember, and think that there was no need for that.

Jo 11:24 Yeah.

Andy 11:25 Actually, what were we arguing about? Sometimes, I don't remember. But it's usually because we want to be heard, or we're hurting. I mean, some really simple ones. Have a drink of water. This is not stupid.

Andy 11:37 There was a period we've mentioned in a previous episode, how exhausted we were. We'd had a business that had closed. We moved house. Jo had become quite ill. We discovered actually, that was a start of a pregnancy of our third child, Peter. And we were exhausted. And we had stupid arguments, the most we've ever had in terms of frequency, and also probably the most, in terms of the least angry or whatever. It was just, they were pathetic little things. But actually, most of the time, we were either thirsty, or we were tired, really tired. And actually, sometimes we're having an argument, do you know, we just need some sleep.

Jo 12:12 Yeah.

Andy 12:13 So we're not saying let the sun go down on your anger. That's against scripture. But actually, just be aware. This is where it's good to think about where are these arguments coming from. Because if you are exhausted, or you're really thirsty, then your brain is going to struggle more. So, if you're thirsty, the water goes from your brain, and you can end up getting quite aggressive. I don't know if it's still a thing. But boxers quite famously used to not drink water, so their brains would get dry around them, so they'd get more aggressive. Well, that's kind of what happens, without the punching, hopefully! And, so, we've got to be careful. Let's let's get the right food and drink. Let's get the right sleep and let's have water. So there's a lot we can do to prevent arguments, as much as there are and we'll go into that how you deal with the arguments themselves. But prevention's always better than a cure.

Jo 12:59 Yeah.

Andy 12:59 If you can step, you know, sidestep a landmine. It's always a good thing.

Jo 13:02 Yeah. I mean, it's really difficult, isn't it? Once you're in the throws of an argument. It's like it's game over, isn't it? It's like, how do you stop? And there can be this tit for tat can't there, and we just sort of get into that. But I think, if you can step back, take some time out, think hang on, this isn't working. And I think over the years, we've come to be able to do that.

Andy 13:21 We've grown up.

Jo 13:22 Yeah, I mean, obviously, maturity growth, growing up, life, the universe and everything and learning from our experience. Yeah, that that does happen, doesn't it? But, yeah, being able to step away realise perhaps I'm too tired, let's talk about this another time. And obviously, prayer is key, obviously asking God into these situations. And, sometimes we need to go to God and say, you know, you feel like you're always right, everyone thinks they're right. You get two people, and they both think they're right. Somebody,

Andy 13:50 You wouldn't argue if you didn't think you're right, would you?

Jo 13:53 Yeah.

Andy 13:54 i suppose you could. But it's unlikely!

Jo 13:55 Yeah, I mean, there's probably both right and you're both wrong. Well, you're wrong. If you're arguing and you get into a state.

Andy 14:00 You can be right and wrong at the same time.

Jo 14:02 Yeah, so going to God in prayer and saying, okay, what do I need to do? And sometimes, to be the bigger person, isn't it, to go I'm sorry. Even if you're not the one at fault, or, you know, it's not all at fault. It can make a huge difference can't it, yeah.

Andy 14:16 We finish on that.

Jo 14:16 Ah.

Andy 14:17 So let's get controversial. Let's dive into the bit of marriage that gets people's blood boiling and really shouldn't, 'cos it's biblical. Okay, here we go. chapter 5, verse 22.

Andy 14:25 "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ as the head of the church, his body of which he is the saviour. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the Word. And to present her to Himself as a radiant church, without stain, or wrinkle, or any other blemish but holy and blameless. In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church. For we are members of His Body. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ in the church. However, each of you also must love his wife as he loves himself. And then the wife must respect her husband."

Andy 15:26 Now, when we got married, we wanted this scripture read out, because it was very important to us. It's God's formula, if you like. I use that very loosely. It's God's formula for a married life, and how we approach each other. And I was really blessed when I got married to Jo, because she was really keen and praying for me. We've mentioned the Stormie Omartian's book, Stormie Omartian or Omartion. Really sorry! Stormie Omartian, her book about The Praying Husband and The Praying Wife. And it's about praying for each other.

Andy 15:52 And I was very blessed when I got married, that Jo was already praying through that, praying for me to be the, the husband I needed to be, the head of the household that I needed to be. And the amount of respect I got from Jo, and support in some big decisions in those first few years, when she'd say, it needs to be your decision, I support you, here's what I think, but you need to take this.

Andy 16:11 And two things happen when that happens. One, the the weight of that responsibility falls on my shoulders, and it's huge. And, two, the weight of that, that weight on my shoulders, sorry, is suddenly supported because Jo's holding me up. And that, I think, is a good image of how it's supposed to work.

Andy 16:28 I say controversial, and it's not, it shouldn't be. But the idea of submission, of headship, all this kind of stuff, it's like, 'ooh we don't talk about that'. Well, it's in the Bible. And it's how it's supposed to be. It's God's intention.

Jo 16:40 Now we're coming from our own perspective, this is our own experience. We very much went into this. But when we were getting married, we asked someone to read a scripture, this scripture, 'ooh I'm not saying that, that's wrong, no, I like the Bible, but I don't like that part.' And we all have that, don't we? We all have bits of the Bible,

Andy 16:55 We just,

Jo 16:56 Yeah, yeah.

Andy 16:56 Can we just skip that part? But, do you know what? It also says in Scripture is every single piece of this word, everything in this book, is good for teaching, and rebuking and training. So we're not going to shy away from stuff. This is all about RealTalk. I'm not going to waffle around a subject. This is what we believe.

Andy 17:12 We believe that husbands are supposed to lead your family. That's God's decree in here. This is His thing that we're supposed to do. But we have to set that against the tension of Genesis 3,16, where it says that wives are gonna try and prevent that. And it also says that husbands will not lead, and love, their wives well in Genesis 3. Which is in opposition to the fact that husbands are supposed to love their wives, as the church.

Andy 17:35 Well what does all that mean? Well, if you look at Jesus as the head of the Church, which is what I'm supposed to emulate as the husband, what was Jesus doing? He was without stain or wrinkle or sin? Will I ever get there in this life? No! But that doesn't mean I say, oh so I shouldn't try. But Jesus, even till death, for something He didn't do. So if you're a husband, and you're in an argument, this is the perfect opportunity to think, well, I know I'm right on this one. But do you know what, who cares if I'm right? This is the daughter of Jesus, the daughter of God, that I need to respect and be blameless before.

Andy 18:11 So, if you're arguing as a husband, stop it! It is that simple. And we do have a choice, men. But how easy is it for us. Men and women are completely different. Men are generally stronger, physically, and it's very easy because we tend to be bigger, or taller, or stronger, so it's very easy to use that in a way of, kind of, getting dominance to win the argument. Well, you might get your wife to shut up, but you've just lost before God, which matters far more. Because now you're putting distance between you and God. And that's even worse.

Andy 18:44 I dunno, I dunno. It gets quite difficult to talk about this. I know pastors who will skip this passage because 'oh, no, I can't talk about this, the wives'll go mad in the church'. And that kind of saddens me, because this is God's word, you're talking about here. Let's have some respect for it. And if it's difficult, let's work it through together.

Andy 19:01 But I was so blessed in Jo, that she wanted to support me, and do everything she could to enable me to be the head of this household, that I needed to be. And here's the thing about that, as Genesis 3and those notes from the ESV, which was superb, it's not about lording it over your wife. If you do that you've failed! Leading is not about making someone do it. Leading is about doing something, in such a way, that anybody who's around you can't do anything but want to follow you.

Jo 19:31 Yeah, I think Jesus showed us what leadership was about and it was a serving heart. And He washed the disciples feet.

Andy 19:38 Yeah.

Jo 19:38 He, He didn't ask them to do things that he wasn't willing to do Himself. His leadership was gentle, and loving, and kind and, and I think there is scripture, isn't it? You shared that didn't you? You said that husbands need to love their wives.

Andy 19:51 It's the end of this passage.

Jo 19:52 And so it says, it's, leadership is serving. And I love the picture of the marriage being about the bride and the bridegroom. This is, this is a picture. This is an evangelistic tool, isn't it, to share, show people the way to Jesus. And if we're not obedient, and submitting to God, then how are we going to show people Jesus. But also I think we need to be aware of the enemy who wants to come in. So if we're not doing it the way we're supposed to, then he's going to get in isn't he. So we need to keep our family safe, and protected, with God at the centre doing things the right way. It's not easy. It's hard! Everything within us wants to fight, and squabble, and get our own way 'cos we've got selfish at heart, aren't we really.

Andy 20:32 Yeah. And then you look at what's going around us in the world and within the church too where, you know, we're all equal, and we're the same. I am not the same as Jo. And Jo is not the same as me. We're not, we're not equal in terms of we're exactly the same. We both have equal access to God. We're both equally valuable to God. We both have an equal opportunity to input into our marriage, our family, our children. However, how Jo does that is very different from me.

Andy 20:56 As a stay at home dad, I can say this. 15 years or so, 18 years or so of being a stay at home dad, when the boys were very little, I was at home. Jo was at work. So any issues that came up with the boys, I was there. If they fell over which they would sometimes do, because they're boys and they'd play, and they'd fall, and they'd hurt their knee, and I'd clean it up, and I get the gravel out, and I'd put a plaster on, and I'd be loving and compassionate and we'd get them up, and off they go again. About 5 minutes later, they'd do the same thing again.

Andy 21:03 When Jo would come home, one of the first things they would do is go to Jo and they'd want to cuddle, and a little cry, and like 'look at my plaster' and they'd want some attention. And that was something I could never really provide as Jo could. In the same way if they were insecure about something, and Jo would make them feel secure, she couldn't provide that kind of security that they would get immediately from me. Because we are very different. We are not the same. And that's what makes a marriage beautiful. If you trying to be too the same, it gets really boring.

Andy 21:55 And I think we're seeing a world where everyone is exactly the same. And no you're not!

Andy 21:59 The picture I love about equality, which really knocks this on it's head, was three boys trying to watch a football match over a tall fence. The one boy could see. The second boy was half his height, couldn't see. And the third child was tiny. And there were three boxes. So, equality, they each got a box. Well, the tallest boy could still see. The middle boy could now see. And the shortest boy still couldn't see.

Andy 22:19 And then there was another picture of real equality. Well the tall boy didn't need any help. The middle boy needed one little box, and the tiny boy had two boxes. So they still used all three boxes. They all had equal access. But that equal access comes with it being very different. And that's what I love about this., is that we shouldn't just come and say, ooh, well skip this passage of Scripture.

Andy 22:38 I sometimes wonder why it's so contentious. But, of course, Genesis 3, 16, a desire for the wife will be to rule over the husband, the desire for the husband will be to be, in my Black Country speak, a bit 'ard, than he should be, and use his size. But if you're using that you've already failed. And being a loving husband, or a loving wife, it's not about lording it over the other.

Andy 23:01 If you're a submissive wife, and this is the thing, submission isn't about not doing something, it's not about saying nothing, and it's not about not being part of a relationship, and just do whatever. That, that's not submission! Submission is about being an equal part of the relationship, but it's a different function. And I think the easiest way to understand all of this stuff, and would help a lot, is to stop seeing it as husband versus wife, which is what it becomes, and actually see it more as function. So we have a different function to fulfil. What do you, what do you think about all that stuff as the wife in this situation?

Jo 23:07 It's tough scripture, isn't it? But it's about being obedient to God and listening to Him. I did have some thoughts, but they, they just pinged out as we were thinking about that. But, yeah, coming back to arguing. Yeah, it's, it's it, yeah, we're fighting we shouldn't be. Where there is equality in the relationship is that we are both equally able to hurt each other.

Andy 23:55 Yes.

Jo 23:56 You know, in a relationship, when you're married, you've, you've submitted yourselves to each other. There's a vulnerability. And we know how each other ticks. And we can equally hurt each other. No matter whether you're male or female, what function you have, that, that hurt is going to be real. And we can really be nasty to one another. And that's where, actually in James, he talks about holding your tongue, doesn't he.

Andy 24:18 Yeah, hold your tongue. James as ever has the answer doesn't he.

Jo 24:21 Yeah, and yeah, we need to watch our tongue because we can say things and then, sometimes as soon as the words come out of our mouths, we think, oh, I wish I hadn't said that, but it's too late, isn't it? I mean, obviously, we can seek forgiveness. We can say sorry. But the hurt is has been done hasn't it.

Andy 24:35 Hurt hurts.

Jo 24:36 Hurt hurts.

Andy 24:36 Let's go back to James 4verse, James chapter 4 verse 2, the end.

Andy 24:41 "You do not have because you do not ask God."

Andy 24:43 One of the things that I'm really struck by is how as husbands, and wives, that we think somehow, and we joked about this in a previous episode, that you complete me. Well Jo can complete me. It's impossible. I can only be completed, in that sense, by God. But I wonder how often we struggle because we're, we're trying to go through life. And trying to get from our spouse what we feel we deserve, what we need, what we should have.

Andy 25:06 Well get rid of the should, 'cos that never helps. And what is it that Jo can do to help me? Well, she can pray for me, she can support me, but she can't complete me, and she can't be to me what God needs to be. And if we're looking to our wife, or to our husband, for what they're going to provide for us, instead of God, we're in a real sticky wicket, and it's gonna go wrong, which is why James 4 talks about the fact that we're supposed to go to God.

Andy 25:31 And actually, if we've been having an argument, the fastest way to an end an argument is to get on our knees, either side of our bed and pray. 'Cos when you involve God, you don't want to shout and you don't wanna be nasty, and you you don't dredge up the past, and you don't name call, and threaten things. Because you know, well God's here. Well, in reality, God's already there.

Jo 25:51 Yeah.

Andy 25:52 But putting God in the focus is important.

Jo 25:54 Absolutely.

Andy 25:55 Fierce marriage. It's a really good blog. They talk about fighting naked. We haven't done that.

Jo 25:58 No!

Andy 25:59 I'm not sure that would work. Some couples maybe.

Jo 26:01 Yeah.

Andy 26:02 Could you fight naked? Probably not.

Jo 26:04 No.

Andy 26:04 It's not something we've ever tried.

Andy 26:06 So we've talked about where this strife comes from in marriages. And we've talked about that from Genesis 3, 16. We've talked about James 4 and how the fact that these quarrels are gonna be there. What is that? Well, it's evil desires. Genesis 3 gives us the why.

Andy 26:24 So what's the solution?

Jo 26:25 Shall we take a break?

Andy 26:27 Yeah, isn't that the next bit? Isn't it this bit?

Jo 26:29 No, we need to take a break first don't we?

Andy 26:30 Oh, okay.

Jo 26:46 How do people talk to you normally? Do they talk in burning bushes?

Dave the Dog 26:49 Sit.

Jo 26:49 Sit

Dave the Dog 26:50 Fetch. Know what I say back?

Jo 26:54 What do you say back?

Dave the Dog 26:55 You chuck the stick? Get it yourself.

Jo 27:03 Dave, are you there?

Dave the Dog 27:05 Are, i'm here, are!

Jo 27:06 Oh. Hello, Dave. Oh, I think we've got the same problem as last week. I can't see you.

Dave the Dog 27:11 Have you opened your eyes?

Jo 27:12 Yes, i've opened my eyes!

Dave the Dog 27:14 Oh.

Jo 27:19 You name it. He could play it.

Dave the Dog 27:22 Pipe organ?

Jo 27:23 Pipe organ. Yeah with all those pipes.

Dave the Dog 27:25 Lots of buttons, like a spaceship.

Jo 27:27 Spaceship.

Jo 27:28 Yeah, hey you're looking good. Have you done something to your hair?

Dave the Dog 27:32 I had me hair sorted.

Jo 27:33 yYu had your hair sorted/

Dave the Dog 27:33 I went to the dog groomers.

Jo 27:35 Cor, brilliant. You look great.

Dave the Dog 27:37 Thankyou.

Jo 27:37 It's good to see you.

Jo 27:43 Do you know what your name means Dave?

Dave the Dog 27:46 Dave!

Jo 27:47 Dave, it just means Dave.

Dave the Dog 27:48 Yes.

Jo 27:49 Well, I looked it up and it's short for David, and it means beloved. That means you're lovable.

Dave the Dog 27:55 Long for D.

Jo 27:56 Long for D.

Jo 28:03 Big long stick to help him protect his sheep.

Dave the Dog 28:08 I like sticks.

Jo 28:08 You like sticks?

Dave the Dog 28:08 You gonna throw a stick?

Jo 28:35 So this is the section for Resources and Tips. And what comes to mind as we've been talking about quarrels and fights, and arguments and disagreements, is a film called War Room.

Andy 28:47 Brilliant film!

Jo 28:47 And it's I suppose they're taking the analogy of war, of military and that's kind of what happens, you know, you can turn your home into a military zone between two warring factions, couldn't you. And it's division and all sorts. And if you've got children, or other members of the family, can get embroiled in some of these arguments. And it can get really nasty. And so this War Room is is a great film where would they look at that these quarrels that are going on amongst this couple, and how to resolve them. And we've talked about prayer being key, and about sorting ourselves out. Oftentimes, we're too busy trying to fix the other person, when actually, probably, if we get down on our knees and get ourselves sorted with God, that's more likely gonna change the the atmosphere, the relationship, the issues. And so yeah, totally recommend War Room to look at those sort of arguments that ensue, in a relationship, and how to move forward. Some great stuff in there, isn't there?

Andy 29:43 Yeah, and the importance of prayer.

Jo 29:45 Yes.

Andy 29:45 Without giving the game away the film, which we wouldn't want to do, it's a great film by the Kendrick Brothers I think, from the US. It's really good. But there's an older wife, who's lost her husband, takes on a younger wife to mentaor, basically. And the whole of the film it revolves around this relationship for the most part. And how these two interact. And the older wife who's been there, done it, worn the t shirt. And the younger wife who's just fighting against her husband the whole time. And it's that, that wisdom, that maturity, from that slightly older lady who comes along and says, 'okay, you've been doing it this way, how's it worked?' 'It's not!' 'Right, let's try a new approach, here is God's way'. And God's way always works.

Jo 30:30 Yeah.

Andy 30:31 We can fight and wrestle but it always works.

Jo 30:33 Yeah, so good. So definitely recommend that.

Jo 30:35 It's a Christian

Andy 30:36 Oh, a 100 times recommended.

Jo 30:37 It is a Christian film, yeah

Andy 30:38 It's great.

Jo 30:38 And prayer is key in the centre.

Andy 30:39 I sob every time.

Jo 30:41 Yeah.

Andy 30:42 Go off and read Ephesians 5. You can read the whole thing, but verse 22 to verse 33. Go and look at it. If you're a parent, you can keep going on into chapter 6, because it tells you how to raise children. It tells you the attitude that should be around the home, of loving your kids basically, and how do you raise your children? And what should it look like? It goes on into that.

Andy 31:03 And the other thing is just write out James 4. I'll just go back to it. Write out James 4, verses 1through 3, and just, just meditate on that one. Make it your meditation verse, well 3 verses, for a week.

Jo 31:17 Yeah.

Andy 31:17 You know, where, where am I causing agitation, or quarrels with my wife? If I'm called to love her, and treat her as a daughter of the king, then am I doing that? Am I am I doing that in how I behave to her? Am I, Am I with my children demonstrating a servant heart towards Jo? 'Cos as much as I'm supposed to lead my family, well what does that look like? Well, if, if I'm not being pleasant to Jo have already failed. If I'm not leading in such a way that she's like, 'yeah, go on, Andy, go, go go'. If that's not happening then I'm getting it wrong. So just take a bit of time out. Go and look at those verses and think well, what's God really saying to me? Where can I be more of a loving husband for myself? Or a loving wife for Jo.

Andy 31:58 And again, we keep on suggetting these books, just because they're really powerful. But it's the Praying Wife or the Praying Husband by Stormie Omartian, which is really good.

Andy 32:06 And another one which you may, or may not enjoy. I thought it was a really good history thing, if nothing else. The name's gone. We'll link to it. But it's Radical Womanhood, by Carolyn McCauley. Which is great 'cos it looks at some of this, in terms of what's the male, female role in society, in the marriage, in the home. How's it developed? What's been going on behind the scenes around the, you know, the globe and stuff. It's quite a good book, just to get a really good overview of what's gone on in the last 200 years of history, of how relationships have changed.

Andy 32:38 There you go. Tips and Resources.

Jo 32:39 Yeah. Take a break.

Andy 32:41 Yeah, take a break.

Nathan 32:49 Physical training is good. But training for godliness is much better. Promising benefits in this life, and in the life to come. The point of this scripture is that while physical training is good, it is beneficial for us. It keeps us fit keeps us healthy. It's not nearly as beneficial as spiritual training and all that makes up training for godliness, such as reading our Bibles, praying, and going to church. And that is the point of Endurance. It is to show how we can maintain self discipline, and how we can endure through our training for godliness. With that in mind, go check it out!

Andy 33:42 So, it's time for The Take Away. So depending on when you when you're listening, or watching this, it might be go and get some food. But Take Away is the last part where we wrap it all up.

Jo 33:51 Yeah.

Andy 33:51 So what have we talked about today? We've looked at James chapter 4. We've looked at why is it that we argue? What's, what's behind that?

Andy 33:59 And then we jumped to Genesis chapter 3, where we look at the fall, we look at Adam and Eve, we look at eating from the tree of good and of good and bad of knowledge and the consequences of that, and why husbands and wives don't necessarily get on together as much as we might want to.

Andy 34:15 And then we've jumped ahead to

Jo 34:18 Ephesians.

Andy 34:18 Ephesians, God's model. And we've missed out, so far, Colossians.

Jo 34:22 Well, we, you wanted to leave that to the end didn't you

Andy 34:24 This is the end,

Jo 34:24 Colossians, Colossians 3,14.

Andy 34:27 I've lost Colossians

Jo 34:27 Which I suppose is, I suppose the antidote, isn't it to arguments, maybe.

Andy 34:30 Yep.

Jo 34:33 This is the way to respond. We've talked about

Andy 34:38 Found it!

Jo 34:38 1 Corinthians 13, which is all about love. But Colossians is a good one as well.

Andy 34:42 It is! So, chapter 3, verse 14, of the book of Colossians, says this,

Andy 34:47 "And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."

Andy 34:54 So I remember a church a long time ago, and they're having a real issue with some, with Local Wiccan group, which is trying to get into the church, and cause strife. And a lot of these witches actually became Christians. And the reason why they did is when they came into the church, they tried to sow seeds of gossip, to rip the church apart. And all the church folk loved each other so much that it didn't work. And they ended up becoming Christians, because that love was just so overwhelming, because the way that they interacted with one another was so gentle, and loving, and authentic, the gossip couldn't work.

Andy 35:27 And there's another one. You want to avoid arguments? Don't slag off your wife to your workmates. Never good!

Andy 35:35 So here's a question.

Jo 35:36 Okay.

Andy 35:37 When I'm leading well, what does it look like? And how do you feel?

Jo 35:42 When you're leading well? I suppose it brings about peace. And, I suppose, it sort of, yeah, it makes life easier and I don't have to stress or worry, when you're leading well. And what does it look like? It's, I suppose, it's just harmony, and peace, and things functioning well, and yeah, things feel right don't they.

Andy 36:01 Do I ever do that?

Jo 36:06 Yeah. Yeah. I think most of the time we manage, don't we.

Andy 36:11 Manage. We're selling this marriage lark aren't we? How's it been? Well, you know, we get by.

Jo 36:16 We get by.

Andy 36:16 We manage. No, it's good.

Jo 36:19 It is good, yeah!

Andy 36:20 We love being married. And there's a lot, there's a lot of stuff that's gonna come along and try and cause strife, and issues, and difficulties. Whether it's trying to do more than you could physically handle as a couple. Or you've got children. Or you've got sickness. Or there's financial worries, or employment worries, or Ukraine happens. There's so much that can cause strife. And the Bible makes it very clear that it can happen, and it's gonna be there. But it also makes clear that there's no reason to do that. It's not okay. And actually there is an antidote. And that is to love one another.

Jo 36:20 Yeah.

Andy 36:21 Above all else.

Jo 36:52 Thinking about what you said. I suppose, in a way, you only really notice when it's not going well, isn't it? So, when you asked me the question, how is it? I guess it must be working? Because you only really notice when it goes pear shaped, don't you really? And then you realise. I mean, no, but joking apart, when you weren't very well, and then I had to sort of lead if you like, because you were down and out, really for the count, sort of thing.

Andy 37:15 Properly!

Jo 37:16 And so it was. I had to take lead and make decisions and things. I suppose you don't realise just how much perhaps you do, or how much

Andy 37:23 thankyou.

Jo 37:24 you are leading. 'Cos it's just sort of a natural part of life, until you're down. Then it's like, hang on a minute, this is hard work this is. I'm tired now. And so I mean, perhaps that comes back to not sort of taking, what's, what's the word, you know, loving each other?

Andy 37:24 I don't know.

Jo 37:41 Maybe, you know, appreciating each other isn't it. You know, not taking each other for granted, I suppose. And sometimes it takes, you know, a negative experience, and you go hang on a minute, you do a lot. I suppose it's a bit like when if somebody did all the cleaning, and one day they think do you know what, I feel like no one's no one cares and so they stop and everyone realises oh, mum does that then, or dad does that.

Andy 38:03 I remember you went for a weeks training one time, residential. I had two little boys at home on my own and it was, that was a tough week.

Jo 38:10 Yes.

Andy 38:10 I suddenly saw all the things that you do that you weren't being done.

Jo 38:13 Exactly, yeah.

Andy 38:14 Why is the bin overflowing?

Jo 38:17 It's funny, isn't it? Yeah.

Andy 38:18 Yeah. That wasn't! No, it was ok. We got through it. Marriage is good. I think that's the thing, though, if, if you're leading well, if not noticeable?

Jo 38:27 Yeah.

Andy 38:27 Because if you're leading hard, and forcefully, then you're not leading, you're just bossing. And that's not, that's horrible. Leading that's done well, in any context, whether it's an employment situation, or marriage, or church. If, if someone's leading well, then it's not really noticeable. And you just want to get behind them, and push them forwards, and everybody benefits. Everybody does better. So, it's good to have someone driving the ship.

Jo 38:50 Yes.

Andy 38:51 Steering the boat. I dunno.

Jo 38:53 Something.

Andy 38:53 So there you go Marriage Matters. We went there. Ephesians 5, 22. That non contentious piece of scripture that people get very scared of and Idon't know why.

Jo 39:02 Yeah, but God's best for us is a peaceful, harmonious home isn't there? Without quarrels where we can sing, you know, Kumbaya my lord, on the guitar.

Andy 39:16 When you start playing guitar, I'll be very interested.

Andy 39:18 So there you go. Marriage Matters. We hope you have enjoyed another episode. Let us know what you think if you want to, if you dare. And we will be back next week for even more of the same. My name is Andy.

Jo 39:28 And I'm Jo.

Andy 39:29 And thank you. Have a good day, morning, night. We'll be back for more matters of the marriage that matter 'cos Marriage Matters and,

Jo 39:36 Yes

Andy 39:37 and stuff.

Andy 39:44 There are loads of ways to stay in touch with the BerryBunch. The best thing you can do is to visit our website, sign up to our newsletter, and you can be sure to always stay up to date with our latest news, videos, posts and updates on our seasonal events

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